107: Is it Love...or Insecurity?

This week, we revisit a conversation about Kate wanting Eric to come to bed, how Kate learned to "grin and bear" it, and why sharing your insecurities might be the healthier thing for your marriage.

Topics for this Episode:

➡️ The difference between wanting your partner, and avoiding loneliness
➡️ Why speaking up is important for the health of your relationship.
➡️ Why we typically remain quiet when we struggle.
➡️ How "book-ending" your days keeps you ROCK-SOLID in marriage.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Eric MacDougall
So today we're talking about this really awesome idea that you and I have been discussing for a long time.

Kate MacDougall
Oh my gosh, it like legit came up the other day. I like don't even know how it came up but it did.

Eric MacDougall
It was a great discussion. And it really is around this whole idea of, are the choices that we're making in our relationship and really how we're bidding for connection and relating to our partner. Are they coming from a place of love and wanting to connect? wanting to create something really great magical or are they coming from a place of our own insecurities. And I want to preface this by saying neither of those choices are wrong, right? It's not bad to want to connect with your partner. When you're feeling insecure. It's just important to understand that if you are only connecting with your partner, if you're only taking action in your relationship from a place of insecurity, it can create a lot of pressurefrom your partner. It can be quite dysfunctional long term. So that's what we're diving into today. So this came from us, you know, and we were having this conversation. It was the other day a couple days ago, it was a bedtime. And I was talking about how we kind of, so we do take off and landings. So in the morning, we call it takeoff. But it's like we connect in the morning to start out our day in a really healthy way. Right. And then when we land we make sure that we land together and end our day in a really healthy way. That's how we stay connected Exactly. Call it book ends. You can call it whatever you want. But it is powerful to essentially have a little ritual in the morning and have a little ritual in the evening, whatever that looks like for you in your relationship. And lately I have been preoccupied a lot of things and you've been inviting me to bed and we typically go to bed a lot together at the same time. That's really important to us.

Kate MacDougall
We don't fall asleep at the same time. I legit fall asleep when my head hits the pillow. Eric reads.

Eric MacDougall
Exactly. That's kind of our ritual but we are in bed together, that was something important to you that you requested. And so I was revisiting that because I hadn't been to bed with you. I've been refusing your invitations to do other things so you've been going to bed alone. And I was talking about this whole idea that was motivating you to invite me to bed. And I said, Are you inviting me to bed from a place of loneliness? As in like, you're lonely, and you're trying to, essentially get me to come to bed to remove that feeling from yourself? Or are you inviting me to bed because you want to create connection with me? And that's really what stemmed this discussion that we're having on the podcast today because we have talked about it quite a bit that night.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, it was awesome, actually. And it's so funny, because when you brought that up, that's how the question of like, insecurities came up. Because I was like, honestly, not because I don't love you, and not because I don't want you in bed with me. But oftentimes, I'll question myself and say, like, he's not coming to bed with me again, like, what the heck. But then I like stop and I'm like, You know what, like, you're only really asking him to come to bed because you don't want to go to bed alone. Like, it has nothing to do with like, I want you to come in bed because I miss you and I want to connect with you and cuddle with you and kiss on you and love on you. Like, I just want to embed with me because I don't like being in the bed alone. Like it's like, lonely. It's boring.

Eric MacDougall
And when you kind of take it a step deeper, right? It's the the presence, your aura, your body in the bed, removes me or removes all these questionable thoughts that I have in my mind. Right, which creates that secure attachment in a sense.

Kate MacDougall
also my FOMO problem, because I have a big fear of missing out on something. So I'm like laying down in bed, and I'm like, oh, no, I hope he's not watching The Last of Us that we're supposed to be watching together.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, so really important. Understand here that that's kind of where we started to really extrapolate and kind of blow this up and say, you know, the decisions that we're making in a relationship, and really, the couples in general are making the relationships? Is it coming from this place of, you know, I'm afraid of the outcome if this doesn't happen, or I need this to happen because I feel like crap, if it doesn't happen, or is it, I want this outcome, because it's going to create something really powerful and amazing and connecting for me. Right?

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And I remember you bringing it up with some of your, you know, the men you work with, you know, how they have this fear of starting something in the relationship or stopping something in this in the relationship because of, you know, they're afraid of the impact it's going to have on the relationship, they're afraid of how their wife is going to feel. So they're very insecure. So they're not bringing things up, and they're not doing things. And because of that insecurity, things aren't happening, they're at a standstill, right. So that's where the insecurity kind of like, also can have a really negative impact if you're not doing things, because you're so insecure in your relationship. And you may not see the advantage of, of just trying, you know, for example, you know, if you're afraid to ask your wife who, you know, goes to volleyball and kickboxing all of these evening events, if you're afraid to ask her, you know, like, Hey, I know Wednesday night, you usually have volleyball, but can you you know, stay home and we can connect because it will be really like it's really the only night we don't have the kids and it'd be a really great time for us to connect. If instead of being you know, upfront about it, and explaining, you know, this is what I want, and I would love to spend time with you. You're too insecure and you're like a little she's gonna be mad. I mean, I'm right. I'm not gonna even bring it up. While you're possibly missing the opportunity to do something fantastic with your wife. Yeah, to create connection to create connection giving her the option to say yes or no. Yeah, allowing her to make that decision.

Eric MacDougall
100% and we get it right. We've talked about this on the podcast a lot like it hurts to be rejected, yeah, rejected. And this is why we usually avoid it because our insecurities get the best of us and those woman's and this is where, you know, this idea of leading from love instead of fear, right, choosing love and seven security allows you courageously power through that. And if you're not clear on the relationship, you want to create the marriage you want to create, well, your insecurities are going to bubble up, you know, because as humans we have a negative bias. We are focused on the negative most of the time, right? Because that's how we've survived for so long. And so typically, you know, when you're inviting me to bed, and I decide not to come to bed, I would assume your mind directly goes to what does this mean about me? What about our marriage, etc?

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, I Yeah, honestly, I Do I do think that I'm like, Ooh, did I do something wrong? Like, especially the first day, okay, I'm like, yeah, he's got things to do second day. I'm like, Oh, he still has things to do. Third day, I start thinking like, what did I do? Right? So at this point, like, it's been three days now, and he usually says yes. And all of a sudden, it's an unknown, like, I must have done something wrong.

Eric MacDougall
And also knowing that, you know, the perfect example there, because we haven't actually talked about it. No, right? No, it's no, like, there's no communication about like, Hey, I'd love for you to come to bed and you haven't really seemed to be coming to bed. Remember this important to me? Yeah. But instead, what automatically happens is you dive into the insecurities. Yes, right, exactly. And then from that place, what usually happens is then we try to get our partner to do something, to remove that sense of insecurity. And this is where it gets really dangerous, because we're not actively going to our partner and revealing what's happening to us, right? Instead, what we'll typically do is we'll go to our partner, and sort of accusing them of things, right? Hey, you have been coming to bed all night, you know, for the last three nights like what's going on? Is this more important than me? Whatever, whatever. 

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and we're not actually on those websites, again, right? 

Eric MacDougall
Whatever the case may be, right. And this is really important, because revealing your insecurities to your partner is another opportunity to create connection. Hey, Eric, I just want to say like, I know, You've been super busy last three nights, I wanted to share what my experience is like when you don't come to bed with me. Right? I guess I start to question our connection, I start to question or relationship. And I start to wonder if I did anything wrong. And I guess I just have to have a conversation about what's going on for you. And I'm sure it's unintentional. But I do want to talk about how I feel and how this is impacting me.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And you know what, something just came up to me when you were talking about that. I think that the reason that I'm not bringing that up in that moment, is because the reason I want you to come to bed is because of insecurities versus desire, right? I don't really want you to come to bed, I don't want you to be in bed so I can connect with you kiss you, whatever. Like I was saying earlier, I just want you in bed because I want you in bed because I don't like an empty side on the bed when I'm in bed. So can you just come and be a warm body in bed so that I can sleep better? It's very selfish. And it's not to say that it's wrong for me to have that selfish wanton desire. But knowing now that it is an insecurity for me that it is something that you know, like, I kind of want it, but it's like, I don't need it. Like, it's fine. If you don't come to bed, honestly, like, I'm just gonna go to sleep. That's probably why I don't bring it up. That's probably why in that moment, the third day when I was like, Did I do something wrong? I didn't bring it up. Because I'm like, Oh, if I bring it up, then he's gonna start coming to bed. And it's like, I don't want to take away whatever he's doing in the evening. Because really, I just want him in bed for my own selfish reasons. Like, it's

Eric MacDougall
like, I shouldn't inconvenience someone else based on my own insecurities. Hmm,

Kate MacDougall
wow. So I wouldn't bring it up. Whereas if we hadn't been hanging out often, you know, like, had we had too busy, very busy schedules and whatever. And I was like, Hey, Eric, oh, my gosh, we've been so busy lately. I miss you so much. And I want to connect with you. And I want to go on a date with us on Friday. Like, can we make time Friday to go on a date, I plan something really wonderful for us. And I would love love to spend time with you. I miss you so much. That is coming from a place of want. That's a desire that I just expressed to you. It's not insecure, it has nothing to do with like, oh my god, we need to hang out because like, a good wife would plan something for her husband. No is legit. I want to be with you. I miss you so much. And you said no. I feel I would most likely at that point, bring it up right away. I would be like, Oh, no, what's going on? Like, I feel we've been avoiding each other lately. I feel we're not spending a lot of time. And now I'm asking you to go on a date. And I did it in a really inspiring way. And you're refusing me like, ouch, right? That hurts. And at that point, I would bring it up because it truly is a desire I have, whereas the other one is more of an insecurity I have. So I'm already insecure. So why would I bring up something I'm already insecure about to bring up? It's very insecure. It's very vulnerable for me to do that. Whereas if I'm desiring something, I can become more vulnerable because I feel more confident in my ask, Does that makes sense?

Eric MacDougall
It does. 100% And I think there's some complexity there. Because the first thing that came to me is, does that mean that you would ask for help from a place of insecurity? And to be honest, I see a lot of people do this, like, especially men, I work in a lot of men and they don't do this. It's like, I want to hide when I'm struggling because that's something I should just be able to deal with, you know, deal with it. Life's not fair. Yeah, and your needs don't supersede your partners. And so you know, If you shouldn't, you know, if you're sad, or if you're lonely, you shouldn't be going to somebody else to take care of those needs for you. And I don't agree with that, right? Like, I don't like, I'm not saying that you should expect someone to take care, I do think that a certain aspect of you regulating your own behavior and, you know, dealing with your own emotional experience, and, you know, finding other support networks outside of your relationship, you know, calling a friend or talking about that stuff, or whatever, depending on what the need is. But I do think it would be quite unhealthy. If you thought every time that you had insecurity, you couldn't go to your partner, and then you just just have to deal with yourself.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, absolutely. I think it would just take more time for me to realize, I should talk to Eric about this. Yeah. And

Eric MacDougall
the thing is to like, the reason I came to like, for me, just as you were talking about that is I think a lot of marriages are plagued by that, where the partner is dealing with stuff internally, the husband or the wife, and they're like, I'm gonna want to bring this up, because this is a me problem. So I just need to figure out how to bear this cross on my own. And then it becomes like, well, then, why are you in a relationship? If you want to create secure attachment, and have that person take care of you when you're vulnerable? Yeah,

Kate MacDougall
and we've had those discussions before, because because of my own family of origin stuff, and my own baggage, I do a lot on my own. If we're having issues in our relationship, or in my own life, oftentimes, I'll talk to you about it. I'll be like, Oh, my gosh, this is going on. I'm so sad, wherever. And then all I need to do is kind of empty my heart, like just like a like, just brain dump all over you. Then you're like, Okay, well, can I help you with that? And I'm like, yeah, that'd be great. You could help me. And then I like conversations over and I never even tell you how you can help me because it's ingrained in my mind that like, this is a you problem K, deal with it, deal with it, figure it out on your own? And like, yeah, fair can help you like I guess mentioned it to him. But it's not a reflex for me to be like, yeah, you could do this.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And also the belief that having problems makes you weak. Right, I think this is a big part. It's like, being insecure in my marriage somehow makes me messed up.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and especially seeing like, you know, with what we know now of humans in general, like, I understand that my suffering isn't something that I live with, just me, like, I'll talk in third person, Kate isn't the only person who suffers in this world, right? Whereas before, like when we were going through really tough things in our relationship. I was at a very selfish place, self centered place where I would think Kate is the only one suffering in this relationship.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And I think that's a big part of the human condition. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. When you are really struggling, you think you're alone in yours? Yeah. But

Kate MacDougall
it is part of the human condition. But I think it's very important and very healthy as humans to be able to see outside of ourselves and to say, Yes, I struggle. Yes, I do. And right now, I'm going through a lot and I'm struggling. But there are other people in this world who are struggling as well. And their struggles may even be even harder than mine. And so understanding that like, Yes, right now I'm struggling, but Eric might be struggling to with his own insecurities and his own shit. So I need to, you know, keep that in mind. And not just be like, oh, woe is me. I'm the only one who struggles and Oh, life is so hard. And I can't talk to Eric about it. Because like, Oh, it's so hard. But I think having that knowledge also burdens me because I'm like, Well, I'm struggling, like, Eric has must be struggling to, like, if I'm struggling like this, he's must be struggling too. So I'm not gonna put that burden on him. Right? Because

Eric MacDougall
everyone's struggling, everyone's trying to want to pass on.

Kate MacDougall
Exactly,

Eric MacDougall
yeah, even though it's connecting, and I totally get, I think a big part of the belief that I see people have is because I'm struggling, there's something wrong with me. And I think that's a very toxic belief, right? So even in the sense of like, you know, wanting to connect with my partner, wanting to have physical connection. Somehow, like, I need to get rid of that one or that desire, in order for me to be able to continue to be married. And it's like, No, there's nothing wrong with that desire. It's possible that your partner right now does not have that desire, and therefore you're out of sync. You know what I mean? But it's not about burying one of your desires. It's not about either your partner needs to fix their problem, which is I don't really have any physical desire for affection. So if clearly there's something wrong with them if they don't want that, or on the other side of the spectrum, which is it me wanting to get a great partner physically, regularly? Well, there's something wrong with me, No, there's nothing wrong with either of you know, right, you are just facing your own struggles, you have different desires you have different wants. And then you get to choose whether or not you're willing to provide that for your partner.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and I love that you brought up this example, because this is such a typical example in relationships, right? Where desire differences are so big, and I don't want to get too deep into this. But like, knowing what I know now about, you know, hormones and things like that, like, if and when we have those discussions, you know, when your use, you know, if you're saying, you know, Kate, we haven't connected sexually in a long time, and I miss touching you, and I miss having sex with you. If we talk, I can tell you exactly what weeks, or what time of my cycle works best if you want to touch me, and what days to kind of like avoid touching me because your touch feels very uncomfortable, not like your specific touch, but like my body is extra sensitive, I feel extra gross, I feel extra, whatever you know, like, so having those discussions and being able to open up and getting past those insecurities. And being able to talk about those vulnerable things with your partner gets, and makes you understand them in a different way. And because you were open and honest, and because you were able to have that discussion, you can learn things about your partner, and learn things about their body, their person, whatever, that will help find solutions to these problems together. And that's why, you know, lone wolf thing at doing it on your own trying to figure it out, okay, we haven't had sex in a while. So I'm going to try, I'm going to try new positions, I'm going to try to dress up differently. I'm going to try to, you know, eat different foods that because I, I read that oysters bring up. Limit Oh, like, let's I'm just gonna serve oysters for a month and see what happens. And hopefully my wife will desire me like, whatever it is like, yeah, you can try all those things on your own. But you know, what would be more helpful? Getting past your insecurities and talking to your wife and being like, what can we do? Yeah, this is this is Aaron Havey. What can we do

Eric MacDougall
to help? Yeah, and I think this is where we kind of ended the conversation on which was really powerful, which was, you know, when you are experiencing that insecurity, the solution is always to choose love, and whether it's love for yourself by saying, I'm going to speak up for myself, right? I'm going to tell Eric, I haven't been to bed with you the same time for three nights, and I miss you. And I want to connect with you. And that's been such a big part of our routine. And it's important to me, Well, that's an example of you loving yourself, but in a sense, also loving and respecting me enough to be a partner who's outspoken, who's honest about what's going on in her internal experience,

Kate MacDougall
right? Because, on the contrary, I could start resenting you, I could start, you know, getting angry at you and holding things against you and start being revengeful. Like, um, you won't go to bed with me, well, no, BJs for a month. When he comes to bed with them, and with me, maybe then we'll have sex. Like, it's so easy. And I've heard so many wives do this, like, oh, he doesn't want to do this. Well, when he starts doing it, I'm not even going to talk to him about it like this. When he realizing Yeah, when he's realizing that there's a problem, then I'll start doing the things that he wants me to do. And it's like, well, instead of having him come up with this on his own, and guess that this is what's going on in your head, like, wouldn't you think it's healthier to talk to him and to be like, Hey, this is what's going on my head. kind of making me mad, like, help?

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, I'd love some help. And I think if you can frame it, and you know, we've done episodes about how to bring up these frames. If you can frame it in a way that's not just like, you know, you're a piece of trash. Yeah, I mean, from the man's perspective, like, I've seen a lot of men where it's like, you want to connect sexually your partner. And your way to try to create that is to just complain about your sex life and talk about how there's a problem with them. Yeah, you know, it's like, well, oh, the couples have sex all the time. And you know, I can't believe you don't like me, and it's your fault. And it's like, Dude, I don't understand how this is going to help them be more sexually connected to you. Like you need to like, think about things differently. Like see, right, you know what I mean? And but instead is just like, well, that's I'm too insecure to open up about what's actually going on for me. So what do I do I go in guns hot. And so really, you know, what we want all of you to think about is, we all have these insecurities. All of us, me Kate, all of you listening, you have insecurities. It's part of the human experience, right? People who are like I don't have any insecurities. It's like, like a sociopath. Like

Kate MacDougall
are you alone in your basement? Which is

Eric MacDougall
probably you know, you kind of deal those insecurities. But the reality is, we all face these insecurities in one way or another. And the best way to overcome those insecurities, create connection and use them to your advantage is to love yourself and Love Your Partner enough to be able to explore Ask them in a way that's loving. It's kind, it's honest. And it's real. Hey, I'm struggling. And I'd love some help. If you're willing, and give your partner the opportunity to step into that and serve you. It doesn't mean that they're going to do it right away and fix your problem that Oh, my God, I'm going to drop everything I'm doing right now and totally deal with this right now. No, they might not have anything they can do right now. They would say, Oh, thank you. So you're telling me I don't really know what to do. And it's like, that's okay. I just want to share with you. And then you know, if it's anything like our relationship, what I realized is then, two, three days later, you know, you start to implement things that are ecosystem that allow me those interest insecurities to go away.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, it takes me a little time to digest the insecurities,

Eric MacDougall
right? But also, like, you know, yeah, exactly what you get to think about it, you're like, I'm not gonna jump the gun and just start

Kate MacDougall
going crazy, like, come up with a plan by myself in my head. You want to think

Eric MacDougall
about it, right? And so the same thing, it might be easy, you know, you're saying like, Hey, I miss you, and maybe like, Great, I'm gonna come to bed tonight, I'm gonna make that more focus. But maybe it's more like, Hey, I got this major project that I've been working on. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to schedule my day. So I can get all that done by a certain time so that I go to bed. So might not happen tonight. But in the next couple of days, that's going to start happening again. Thank you so much for bringing it up to me. Absolutely.