108: How You Know When to Ask for Help

This week, we share our recent experience with asking for help, and why it's so hard for people to do.

Topics:

➡️ Why going to therapy doesn't always mean something is "wrong"
➡️ Why we struggle with asking for help
➡️ Why thinking you can do it on your own can be a problem
➡️ How to ask for help NOW so you can create a WIN/WIN in your marriage

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Eric MacDougall
For those of you guys who don't know, we, Kate and I, right, we're huge advocates of getting help. Not only have we each had coaching, we've shown individual therapy, couples therapy, like we love getting help. And we're gonna talk about some of the limiting beliefs that people have around getting help and what prevents them, and also like what prevents us sometimes from getting help. But really understanding the value in getting help and really how to go about doing that. So so as you guys know, Kate and I booked a therapy session with a couples counselor to get back into therapy together to work through some of our stuff. Again, Kate and I have a very good relationship. Right, I would say that we have an excellent relationship. And we want to better help to play and learn more about some of these patterns that we find ourselves in our marriage.

Kate MacDougall
And oftentimes what happens is when we go to therapy, you know, like, I mean, Eric's a marriage coach, he does research, on marriage, on communication on all things that have to do with relationships, interpersonal relationships, human relationships, daily, like this is your bread and butter, this is what you do. And we often have deep conversations about this kind of stuff. We're both very educated, when it comes to relationships. We've been doing therapy forever, we've been reading books, like, we do it, we know the stuff. But despite that, it's still so healthy for us to go to couples therapy, because sometimes the therapist will say something, and we'll go like, Oh my gosh, that was like way in the back of my mind. I haven't thought about that in a while. But it's true. I'm not doing this, or I'm finding myself kind of at a blockage when it comes to that, you know, so it just, to me, therapy is like a great reminder of the things I know, I think that I kind of look at our brain as like a file folder system, right? Like you've got, but like libraries, like you walk into like that those libraries and like huge cities, and they're just like, rows and rows and rows of books and files and file folders and drawers and whatever. And all the therapists does, it's like, oh, it's in this drawer right here. And they'll like open the drawers. Yeah. And then you're like, right, yes, I have that information. It's there. It's just buried under all kinds of other things. And it's maybe blocked by this elephant that's like, I think it's a bigger problem in my life right now. But all I have to do is like, push that elephant out of the way, open the drawer, get a little information, all of a sudden the elephants gone like, yeah, so that's kind of how the image works in my head of like going to therapy. It's like, I don't necessarily have to go to therapy, because oh, I'm broken, or our relationship is almost over. So we need to go to therapy to save it. Like, to me that's, that's obviously yeah, get help if you're at that point. So people need therapy for that reason, right? Yeah. But I mean, it shouldn't be the reason to get therapy, you shouldn't be like, oh, I need to hire a coach or I need to seek help. Now that my life is almost over, like my relationships almost over now that I'm like, at a place where I'm in this dark hole, and I can't get out of it. Usually, at that point, you're not gonna go get therapy because you're just like, discouraged.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And I think, you know, we've made a lot of advances in society in terms of like mental health and kind of going down that road and championing this idea of getting help. But I do think there's still that stigma of, like, going to therapy means you're fucked up. Like, that's kind of the idea, right? And it's funny because we don't necessarily do that with exercise. Right? I think about that in terms of like therapy is kind of like helping your brain essentially work through some of these emotional blocks, your thoughts on getting all this out? And, you know, typically if it's like, oh, you're Wanna therapy? It's like, oh, what's wrong? But if I say go to the gym, people are like, Oh, are you overweight? Like, I work out? It's like, Are you like super unhealthy?

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And I was comparing it to get getting a massage like people book massages. They're like, Oh my gosh, I just need to like, relax and get a massage. You don't necessarily book a massage because you're like, muscles are sore. Like, you just want a massage because it feels good. Like, you don't necessarily need a massage, or you get a massage, or you like super stressed. No, like, No, I didn't like massage. You don't have to justify that. But for some reason, you have to justify therapy. And it's funny, because the other day, I was talking to some people, and I was like, Oh, actually, I'm not going to be available that afternoon, I have the afternoon off, I have an appointment of a therapy appointment. And they were like, Oh, my gosh, are you okay? Like Jeanine to talk with you? Like almost wanting to give me a hug? And I'm like, Dude, I'm fine. I just need to like, talk to a therapist, like, I want to not I don't need to, I want to, I'm choosing to, I'm choosing to do this for my marriage. Because, you know, right now things are, we need some help. We need some help, we need to be reminded of the things we know, we need to be reminded of our connection. And we need to be reminded that like, Hey, what's going on is the enemy. Eric is not the enemy. Qaeda is not the enemy. I'm not bad. You're not bad warden. Neither of us are doing anything wrong. It's just right now, we're forgetting some of our strategies that we know, we're just they're just lost in our library somewhere. Yeah. And

Eric MacDougall
also maybe strategies we don't know, necessarily, right, that's just what you want to champion is that, you know, getting an outside perspective is very powerful. Like, if it's just Thanks for the reminder, you're bringing that up again, and you're giving us a direction of things to focus on right now. Great, it creates accountability, you get to talk it out, you get to have a safe third party, that gives you a third perspective. And essentially, what happens is, you remove the marriage from this vacuum, if you will, right. Because when it's just you and I and we're working through it, it's essentially just a back and forth conversation ideas. And that limits us to only our two perspectives,

Kate MacDougall
And sometimes, you know, emotions can get involved, then the conversation becomes a little bit harder, and like, you know, you're you'll raise your voice, or I'll raise my voice, and actually, you're triggered, and then all of a sudden, like, the message isn't getting through. Whereas our experience with therapists and when we did couples coaching was like, Okay, just a secondary, click, click Finish. Okay, just a second. Kate, are you hearing what Eric is saying right now?

Eric MacDougall
What exactly do you mean by that? Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, allows us to do,

Kate MacDougall
whereas when it's just the two of us, we can get lost in our emotions pretty quickly, and let those take over the conversation. And then Eric becomes the enemy, or I become the enemy. And then it's no longer about the conflict, or whatever we were talking about. It's about like, I don't really like you right now. Like, I, you're the problem. And there's a lot of finger pointing. It's just because you move so quickly. Yeah, it really does. But, I mean, we're talking a lot about therapy, but there's all kinds of different help. Yeah.

Eric MacDougall
And I think to like this is what I really want to encourage everybody is that we have this idea that, you know, we need help because something's wrong. And I think more than anything, like we have this idea that this belief that asking for help, doesn't only mean something's wrong, but it means that there's something wrong with us. Like, if I was, if I was okay, I wouldn't need help,

Kate MacDougall
I should know how to do this by myself. Yeah. And that,

Eric MacDougall
that is a very, I don't want to say toxic, but like, unhealthy belief, like the idea that, as a human being, you should be able to do everything on your own is not a healthy belief. Like it's not healthy, it's not helping you. And, and it's actually getting in the way of your growth of your evolution. You know, and this is what we say oftentimes, like, even in a relationship, you know, when it's like, oh, well, I should be able to take care of all my emotional needs in the relationship, and my partner shouldn't have to help me at all with my emotional state. And it's like, well, then why are you in a relationship? Like, no, your partner is there to help you emotionally? You know, oftentimes, you know, one of the big things that Kate and I do is, through the conversation, like just the passing back and forth of ideas, we actually reduce our anxieties, right? So, Kay, it'll be at work, or I'm at work and like just us talking about our day, and the other person receiving it and listening to it, and then maybe asking some questions and continuing to get a little more clear. You actually lower your stress level of the day by letting it out and having the safe place to do the back and forth. Now, your partner can be essentially your saving grace when it's done in that way, but they can also be your biggest trigger, right? Because if you come home and you start talking bout your day, and like why are you talking to me, God, I hate I hate hearing you. Well, now it's like your anxiety is through the roof because of the relationship. But this idea that, like we should be able to take care of our own needs on our own is a very unhealthy belief. Right at we're social creatures. And so as humans, it's very important that we surround ourselves with other people. Sadly, we have created a society where we have ice leading ourselves. And it's actually this this superpower to think, Hey, I'm totally isolated, I don't need anybody that's like we champion that. And to be honest, in my personal belief, I'm in part, a lot of men's group, I have coaches, I have a lot of great friends that helped me out. I have healthy relationships in my life. Like, I wouldn't want it any other way. Because I don't know that I would be who I am. Without the people in my life that have been supporting me.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and I think often what we fall into in our relationship, and it's kind of what you're saying is, our spouse becomes our everything. And that's why I decided to go to therapy for myself. So not only in the next bit, do we have a therapy appointment for the two of us. But I also have a therapy appointment for myself, and I just did a coaching session with my coach. And the reason I decided to reach out and get a therapy session with for myself and get a coaching session for myself, was because I was relying on you a lot to help me emotionally. And that's okay, to a certain extent, when it becomes when you become my crutch, when I am no longer able to function without you coming in and sweeping me off my feet and making me feel better. Because I'm unable to do that for myself. That's my warning of like, like, I need to go get help. Yeah, that's when you fall on the board. Yeah, because putting that pressure on you, as my as my spouse, my husband, that that's heavy, that's a lot of pressure to put on you. And then it becomes this thing where I'm, I actually get angry at you, because you can't take care of me in the way I need to, and you're not making me feel better, and how come you're not making me feel better? And don't you want to help me? And, and this, like, weird anger comes out? And then, you know, you you actually had to tell me the other day like Kate, like, I can't be your everything, like you have to reach out and get some help. And I was like, Yeah, you don't want. Yeah, that's true. And you know, sometimes spouses can serve as mirrors to you. So what you said there was very, very helpful for the relationship. You could have sat there continue to listen to me, you could have sat there giving me the space, which you've been doing a lot for a long time. But somewhere at one point, like it was healthy for you to say, I can't I can't do this anymore.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And I really want to kind of double down on that, because I was also a part of creating that ecosystem and our relationship, right. This is kind of what a lot of people might not understand. But, you know, we had created together an ecosystem where not only were you relying on me, but I was actually continuing to reinforce the idea that you could rely on me completely right. I was like, Oh, I'll be your everything. Like, I'll be the white knight. I'll take it all on.

Kate MacDougall
Tell me more.

Eric MacDougall
I'm like, because I think it's great. I'm like, I'm like Kate's person like this feels awesome. Right? To the point, though, that what was happening is I didn't realize what was happening in the background, which is, this was draining me. I was starting to look at you in a different way. Right. And then I was starting to take a lot in and emotionally it was, it was kind of Ooh, man, it's heavy. And then realize, day after day after day of like, Man, I'm just feeling kind of drained and heavy. I'm taking care of everybody, to finally you know, two, three weeks later, you're like, hey, and I'm like, You know what, I'm sorry. Like, I just can't do this anymore. Yeah. And it's like, because I hadn't recognized it. Because I had this other idea in my head of like, Oh, I'm exactly I'm super power. And I'll do it all. I was also part of creating that cycle. Right. And, and so when I had to do and again, it wasn't from a place of like, you know, eff off, you need to get help. No, it was like, I love you. And I want to love you the best way I can. And right now, like, I'm not able to do this for you. So please like not only for my benefit, but also for your benefit. Like it's better for you to get somebody that actually has the capacity to listen to you and help you, right. Because the end of the day when we're sitting in bed together, I'm totally drained. And I'm just like, I don't know that I'm the best person right now. Right to support you.

Kate MacDougall
I exactly know. And you know, to me, that was like a very like, oh, yeah, right. Right. Right. Right. Like that totally makes sense. And, and, you know, that also consisted of me reaching out to some of my girlfriends and talking to them about it and talking to my coach, like, it doesn't necessarily mean you need to go out and find yourself a therapist or a coach like, yeah, those are probably the most efficient people to talk to because they're nonbiased, professional, professional, they just have different skills. Yeah, they know exactly how to go and question you and really come and really help you dig deep to, you know, answer those big questions and really dig and find those emotions that might help you get out of whatever you're going through. But I'm talking just talking to a friend you know, that can release some of the anxiety you're living in, you know, day after day after day that you're unable to get rid of just on your own or talking to your spouse. So, yeah, absolutely. Like Eric and I, we have a great community of friends. I have girlfriends, I talk to you daily. And without those girlfriends, I, like you said earlier, like, I would not be the person I am today.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think what we also want to really double down on here is understanding a couple things about how you're asking for help. So I love what you said in terms of like, reaching out to a friend, like even you see this all the time, like if somebody, a good friend of yours texts you and say, Hey, how you doing? And you're not doing well, like tell them this happened last week when I had some buddies like, Hey, man, how was your week? It's like, Dude, it hasn't been good. Like, I'll be real, like, I'm, I'm struggling, right. I easily could have been like, everything's good. And then just talk about, yeah, everything's cool. Everybody's healthy, like business good, like, but it's like, no, here's an opportunity for me to share with my friends openly, and give them the gift of supporting me.

Kate MacDougall
Right. And I and I often have to remind myself, like, because I do have that burden thing, right? So I'll go to like, talk to a friend. And I'm like, oh, no, like, she's probably too busy, or she, she has her own stuff she needs to handle with right now. Like, I she can't handle myself right now. Like, I'm too much. I'm too much. But then I have to remind myself, like, if I found out my friend was going through this, and she didn't reach out to me, like, I would be really hurt by it. Like, if I found out like, yeah, you know what, my marriage has been tough for the past few weeks. And you know, I've been crying almost every day. Like, I'd be like, Well, why didn't you call me? Like, am I not your friend? Like it would insult me. So I have to remind myself of that, like, What kind of friend do I want to be and isn't not something I want to give my friends? Don't I want them to feel like that kind of friend for me so that they can reach out to me if they're feeling under the weather or just having a bad day?

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, I agree. And I think this is what we forget about is that, you know, serving others is a gift. And it feels great. I mean, we've all had that where like, we help somebody and they come to us, Hey, I just want to say thank you so much. Right? And like the simplest thing sometimes, right? And we want to understand that we're when we're not asking for help, we're taking that opportunity away from people to love us. And I see this even in like your marriage, your closest relationship your family is like, it's really important that you are clear about what's going on for you. And you ask your partner for help. Most of the time, if you're vulnerable, and you're honest with them about what you're struggling with, they'll help you now if you're struggling, you're like, Oh, God, whenever I'd Saxon, we'd have more sacks, like help me with like, Okay, what's different? But if you're saying like, Hey, I had a really tough day at work, and I'm struggling, and I have a lot of insecurities about my new job. And, you know, I don't really know if my boss likes me. And would you be willing just to kind of hear me out for a bit? That would really help me out? As hard as I can be like, I don't have time for you get away from me cool set of balls. Like, I mean, maybe they will? Yeah, like, I don't really think. Yeah, but like, the idea here is like, it's an opportunity for your partner to help you and support you. And one of the last things is, be clear about what exactly you want help with. And that's what I say all the time. Like, you know, make it easy on the people you love to help you. Right, like get clear about, hey, this is what I'm struggling with. Sometimes it's just like, I don't need anything except just to be witnessed. Like just to, you know, for you to hold space to acknowledge my suffering, and the like, I'm a human being. That's the reality of a lot of these groups. A lot of times we help like rally therapists, you know, people are like, Oh, it's bullshit by therapists and see anything but it's like, literally, just the process of saying like, this is real. Your pain is real. It's valid.

Kate MacDougall
Right, sitting there and going. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
it's like your normal, just like, like that, in itself over time is helpful. You get it out of you. Yeah, it's normal to have a human experience of struggle. And so sometimes, you know, that's what I'll talk to my buddies. I'm like, Hey, man, I'm just like really struggling. And you have you have a couple minutes, and they're like, yep, shut up my phone. I was like, blah, like this, and this and this. And this. They're like, Do you need any help or anything? And I'm like, Nah, man, like, I'll get back. Yeah, this alone was, and then my buddies, they get it. They're just like, okay, like, they're not advice, monsters, just trying to dump advice on me. They're just like, Okay, awesome. You know, Eric, you got this, like, You're a good man. 

Kate MacDougall
And yeah, and for me, I've had to build kind of a board of directors, right, like, so each person in my life has a specific role. Like, I have one friend who's also a teacher who really understands that world. So I talked to her about my teaching stuff. If I have to, you know, bitch about a co worker or bitch about something going on at work or, you know, I'm having a hard time with a kid like, I'll talk to her and she gets it. So when I talk to her, I really feel connected and she does the same with me and we'll go on and on for hours about our student. Some things like that, but she's my person to do it if I was doing it with another friend who's not necessarily a teacher understands kids and things like that, but it wouldn't be the same. So I understand that there are people in my life that I can go to for different things. I've got friends that I go to for parenting, I've got friends that I go to, for my emotions, I've got people that I go to, for, you know, bigger relationship, things like, so I kind of have picked and picked and chose the specific people in my life who can help me in different areas. And it's very clear to me, so I know that when I reach that person reach out to that person, I know that I'm going to get the support that I need in that moment. And I even have a board of director, I have a great friend who will just literally sit there not say a thing and just be like, yeah, huh, that sucks. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, so grateful for that friend to just give me that space. And she's not like, dumping advice, or whatever. And I really appreciate that friendship. So, you know, build yourself a board of directors who can be my person for what?

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, and I think that's really the message we want to get through as you know, there's never a wrong time to ask for help. Like, if you find yourself struggling with anything great, ask for help. But also, if you feel like you could make your life easier, ask for help. Right? And because asking for help is a gift like this is sometimes in our connection, right? It's like, I don't like necessarily need help making dinner. But sometimes I'll ask you to come in and help me make dinner. Because I need help in terms of getting this all done and be more efficient. Sometimes it's just like, I want your company like us doing this together. And you helping me, me bidding for that connection. And you helping me is a sign of love. And if you're like No, Eric, I can't help you. It's like, oh, yeah, cool. I can do it anyways. But just to say like, it's not coming from this place of I'm suffering and I can make dinner. It's just like, I would like your company. And so do you want to help me out with dinner? And then it's not like, because I can't make it. It's because I love being around you. So let's do this together. And so sometimes it can come from that place. But honestly, just think about asking for help. And think about what exactly what help with maybe it's just, you know, being witnessed and you'll have a conversation exactly whatever it is, and reach out to somebody trust a friend, a family member, or if you need something a little more professional, reach out to a coach or therapist, right, whatever feels good to you. But again, do not get in your own way of asking for help growing healing or waiting too long to get it. Yeah, yeah, cuz sometimes it can be too late, sadly, where the emotions are high, and then you have a long way to go to heal and turn things around.