130. Mastering Marriage Communication

On this episode of the Evolved Marriage Podcast, Kate and Eric share a simple formula to Master communication around challenging topics.

Topics:
➡️ The two roles you take during challenging conversations.
➡️ Take responsibility for your message in 3 steps.
➡️ Opening yourself up to understanding your partner.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Eric MacDougall
So today we're talking about something that's really near and dear to our hearts, which is communication. We love giving skills around communication. I think our communication is excellent. It has evolved over the years. We're still learning. We're still growing. We're still mastering it. And we wanted to share a lot of what makes our communication work function, especially around hard conversations. Right and so This is not necessarily the idea of like bringing fun, playful communication to your marriage, this is very, a very specific tool for you and your partner to work through very challenging conversations. Right. And so you can call this whatever you want, we call it the speaker listener dynamic, right? And but essentially, two people, one person is the speaker, one person is the listener. And in order to make the communication work and function and create really great results, you each have a role to play.

Kate MacDougall
Exactly. So if you're looking at it, like I kind of see it in my head as like a a play, right, so each character has their, you know, their role to play. And if you're not doing your job as your character, things are not going to happen as they're supposed to in that play. So when you're given a role, you have to, you know, ace it, you got to be the best of the best that that role. And so it takes practice, it takes a lot of skill, but you got it, you can do this.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And it also takes kind of stepping out of your own ego or sense of individualism, right and time, because I find that most of the time when conflict is happening in our relationship, or in other couples that I see a lot, the primary reason the conflict is happening is because you have two speakers, right? And no one, neither one of them are willing to listen. So both of them want to be heard both of them feel unheard. And neither one of them is willing to step into the listener role in order to keep things moving forward. So what happens, you end up at a gridlock, you end up in a conflict, and that never ends? Well, exactly. And so today, we're talking specifically about two roles, we're going to go through each role and really talk about three simple things that they can do in the moments of those tough conversations in order to help the conversation flow and really work as a team to overcome some of these challenging dynamics.

Kate MacDougall
Right. And always remembering that both of you are a team. I think I've said this, like in the last like 10 episodes, yeah, both of you are a team working against a common enemy, which is the conversation, the conflict, the whatever is, you know, bothering you guys in that moment, right.

Eric MacDougall
And working together is the best way to overcome it. So let's open up about the speaker role. The speaker, so what specifically does the speaker need to be prioritizing as they enter into these conversations?

Kate MacDougall
So the responsibility of the speaker is for? It's to be understood, sir. So their only role in this conversation is to be understood. So

Eric MacDougall
I want to challenge that a bit. Not the only rule? No, because you often say this to be understood. But I think it would be more powerful and more accurate to say, to make sure the listener understands that.

Kate MacDougall
Yes, that's true, actually. Yeah, yeah. Because it's easy for me to be like, Well, I would have understood if I said it this way. But if I'm speaking to a child, I need to change the way I'm speaking to them. If I'm speaking to an adult, I have to change the way that I speak to them. Right? If I'm speaking to a dog, I have to change the way I speak to that

Eric MacDougall
and think about it in terms of like, what, probably the best analogy that I give is always like the idea of language, right? If I were to go to Japan, and I'm like, my job is to be understood, well, I would just go to Japan and talk to people who don't speak English and just speak English, and then get angry at them, because they don't understand me and yell at them in English. And then when they walk away from me chase them and yell at the morning. Right? I would need to try to figure out new ways to make sure that they can understand my message. And therefore, I would shift the way I communicate, I might start using my hands. I might point I might whatever cheers. Yeah. Because in that case, the priority is to try to get this person to understand me. Yes, not to be understood. You know, in general, yeah, there's a lot of times we have these stances of individualism. And what I want to do is push it one step further, and really understand that you're working as a team. And your role as the speaker is to make sure that the listener can understand your message. Yeah, and

Kate MacDougall
there's three, you know, simple enough steps to do this. And the first step being to be very aware of your timing. So when you're about to bring something up, what moment are you choosing to bring this up? What is your surrounding like, what is the environment? You're in? Like? What time of day? Are you bringing it up? Is this the right time to be bringing up the specific topic that you're about to bring up? Right? So thinking about the timing is extremely important. Not just does this time work for me? But like you said, don't think about yourself think about the listener? Because you want the listener to understand you. Is this a good time for my listener to take in my message?

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, like an example of that would be, you know, if you're in a vehicle and you're driving your wife to the hospital to give birth to your first baby, talking about your insecurities about a father and your fear of the future, that might not be the best time not

Kate MacDougall
listening should not listening. She can't hear you. Yeah, I'm promised you that. Yeah. And so again, like you can get past her yelling.

Eric MacDougall
But we see this a lot in relationship, right? Somebody comes home from work from a stressful day at work, and their partner immediately meets them at the door and just bombards them with complaints and stuff like

Kate MacDougall
that. Yeah. And you know, what we used to do this often is, we would get in an argument, and then you would call me at work, or I would call you at work to have these conversations. And like, talk about the worst timing, like, I can't see you, I can't feel you, I can't touch you. I don't know what your face is like. And I'm having this conversation over the phone. Definitely not good timing, let it go and talk about it at a better time. Because this is not a good time to be having this conversation. I love that. What's the second aspect, second one is your tone. So being very aware of your tone, and that, again, is very personal to the listener, you're speaking to Eric could talk in the same tone with an one person and talk in that same tone with me. But the tone will trigger me because Eric knows, because of past conversations that are very monotone very like Doctor like psychology, like tone triggers me it gets right down to my bones. And if you start talking to me like that, unless you're a psychologist or my doctor, I will get angry. So

Eric MacDougall
yeah, yeah, give love like a, like a calm, but like hopeful

Kate MacDougall
tone. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And because you know me, you know that that's the tone you need to use around me

Eric MacDougall
if I want my message to be understood. Exactly. If you're angry,

Kate MacDougall
and you're coming in guns blazing, what die hackers are, bang, you could say the nicest words, but because you're yelling at me, I'm not gonna hear you. So being very aware of your tone, and keeping that tone throughout the whole conversation is very important. Yeah. And

Eric MacDougall
if you struggle with this, like if you're trying to think about like, oh, what's the right tone? For us? And this is like from the Chris Voss method, but we always think about like, the late night DJ voice, right. That's like the, the basic tone that you should probably start out. Right, which is like,

Kate MacDougall
I was imagining a DJ in a club, like prepper prepper. Talking about some conflict. Not that kind of, do you

Eric MacDougall
know, like the radio? Yeah, like radio late at night, monotone, like, Hey, I'd love to talk to you about something. How are you doing? Like, that is a go to for most people

Kate MacDougall
as people until you're told by your wife, Kate, right, that tone really irks you. But

Eric MacDougall
you got to sound like a hopeful Smurf. Yeah. All right,

Kate MacDougall
I would love to talk to you about the fact that we might be on the edge of a divorce.

Eric MacDougall
So again, we're kind of being playful here. But really understanding the impact that tone has, because it triggers emotional states in the listener,

Kate MacDougall
yeah. And don't do it in a judgmental way. But just as you would talk to a child, in a more childlike voice, you lower your voice, you talk to them with a more friendly vibe, you know, like, if you yell at a kid, it's not gonna get past them. But if you're like, Hey, sweetie, that really hurt my feelings, they're really going to listen, well. Why not give the self same respect to your spouse? Not say, Hey, sweetie, I'd like to talk to me in the hallway. But

Eric MacDougall
no, but think about the judgmental tone. You can think about the contemptuous tone, right? Like, if you're saying like, why don't you just get it, like, that's not a tone that is going to be received by your partner, right? So really start to think about

Kate MacDougall
that. So focusing on the timing, the tone, and finally, the clarity of your message. So getting down. And this means it takes some planning beforehand, unless you are like a professional at communication, which I don't know if that exists. But take your time before setting up this meeting or talking to your spouse or whoever you need to speak to. To get really clear on what it is you want to say. Yeah, and go down that why ladder? Not just, you know, I need you to you can say it in the nicest house is always a mess. Yeah, the house is always a mess. Okay, doesn't really mean anything. Thank you for telling me that like, so what is it about the house? That's a mess, go down that ladder. Why is it important to why is it impacting you? What is it that a clean house would bring you

Eric MacDougall
and this is what we're saying is this is the speaker's responsibility to dive into. But for because what a lot of people do is they're just pissed off, they go to the partner, and then they're trying to regulate and figure it out with their partner, and other partners. Like, what is this about? Like, we just spent 10 minutes and I don't even know what this is about yet. Well, that is going to have your partner in the future avoiding these conversations, but like, I don't have 10 minutes for you to figure this out with me. Yeah, right, because I'm not here at this moment. So take some responsibility for your message and get clear on what it is you're trying to say.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and I like doing this by journaling. I like doing this by talking it out with a friend before. A lot of times that helps is that it can get Like a lot of the like, well, he's just so stupid. And he started out with my friend who is a very neutral party, I'm not impacting her in any way about, you know, being angry at my husband in that moment, she understands that I'm angry that I still have a lot of love for my husband. But I'm able to craft a message that's very clear as to what I need out of this conversation. And that's kind, right. Being clear is kind clear is kind exactly so. So you're, you're watching your timing, you're watching your tone, and you're being very clear about what message you're trying to put across your

Eric MacDougall
100%. And before we move on to the listener, you know, there's a very simple four step process here that we love to use, which is, you know, the fact the story, the feeling, and then what you want, right? And so what is the observation when you're saying like, the house is a mess, be more specific, oh, there's toys all over the playroom, the dishes are in the sink, and there's mud all over the floor,

Kate MacDougall
right? So you're bringing up a fact something that can be proven in a court of law. That's right,

Eric MacDougall
and then close as possible to a fact, the better. And then the story you make up about that fact, you know, that tells me that relays either were on organized that whatever it stressed, and then the feeling, which is it stresses me out, I feel overwhelmed, etc. And then you're want, what I would like or what I want is for us to get together and sit down and create a cleaning schedule for our family to pick up after our toys and make sure the dishes are done.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and that story part, you know, actually saying the story in my head, or the story I'm making up? That really, really softens the blow.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, because partnered Internet allows you

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, so if you're saying like, you know, it makes me think that we're lazy and and and that might be taken as a little offensive to your partner. But if you're like, the thing, I'm making up the my head, the story I'm making up in my head, what I'm telling myself is, we're lazy, we're this, like, I know, we're not that it's just this is what I'm making up in my head. This is what I'm believing right now. So and it makes me feel this way. And this is what I would like, here's a specific, very clear request from you or for the family, or,

Eric MacDougall
yeah, exactly. And so that's a great way for you to be clear, and share that with the listener. So now if we shift right to the receiving partner, because again, you're working together, one partner chooses to be the listener and to receive your message. Yeah, so there's three steps for the listener as well that we suggest, in order to, you know, seek to understand what the speaker is sharing, because that's the listeners responsibility. The listeners responsibility is to try to understand what it is their partner is saying, and not through their own lens, like not taking your information and putting it through all my lens, all my beliefs and all my defense mechanisms, and then deciding to deal with that. No, to really take it in terms of like, what is this person trying to express to me?

Kate MacDougall
Yes, exactly. And I love that you said, they can choose to listen, because listening is a choice. I don't have to stand here and listen to you. I don't have to listen to anybody. I can just live in my own world, and have my own thoughts and beliefs and not choose to listen to anyone. So by being a listener, I am making a conscious choice. Yes, I want to listen to you. And yes, this is a good time for me to listen to you. So the first step to being a listener is grounding yourself. Really finding your your zen and choosing Yes, I am ready to be an active listener. Yes, this is a good time. Yes, I'm open to it. My heart is open to what you're saying what you're about to say. And I am choosing to be here and listen to this in this time, because it is a good time for me.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And what you're really saying here is, and this is where you need to trust yourself and make a commitment to the conversation is you are making a commitment to be able to regulate yourself through this conversation, right? Because it's possible that something's gonna come up that are gonna trigger you. And you are making commitment to say, Hey, I'm gonna go to headspace now, or I'm willing to sit and kind of listen and be open to this, knowing that maybe some emotions will come up, but that I'm going to choose not to respond from that place. I'm gonna choose to breathe and I'm gonna choose to prioritize listening to you here.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, right. And if I'm not in the space to do so, I will make a, you know, a promise I will make a decision for when that is a good time, and I will tell my partner, I'm so sorry. I had a really busy day. I'm unable to listen to you right now. But if you give me you know, one hour to come down from my day, I will be able to give myself to you fully, to be able to listen because I really care about what you have to say.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, I love that last part, right? Because what what you want to share with me is a priority to me and I want to hear you Yeah, right. And so I'm committed that in one hour. I'll put on a timer, and I will come find you. So you can express this to me to see if it's a good time.

Kate MacDougall
Exactly. because as a listener, I am really taking action to be in the right headspace to receive that message that is about to come to me. Yeah. So that is being the first

Eric MacDougall
kind of ground yourself. Yeah. Open yourself up to receiving your partner's message. Yeah.

Kate MacDougall
And so your next step is to be quiet. And listen. And once the message has been passed, and it is clearly done, to paraphrase, so to take what was shared by your partner, and to say it, in their words, in your words, whatever is comfortable for you, but to say what it is you understood, yeah. So thank you for sharing that with me. What I understood was, and then you paraphrase it, you say it in your words,

Eric MacDougall
well, and this is really important, because when you're saying stating your words, we actually want to drive towards saying it in a way that adds clarity. Because what you don't want to say is, you know, if your partner is like, Hey, I feel like, you know, we've been disconnected, and I miss you. And I think you're working a lot. And you're like, Oh, well, what I'm receiving from that is, I'm a shitty husband, and I'm never around, and whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not paraphrasing. That's where you're not open now. And so you're always trying to move towards creating more clarity for the conversation.

Kate MacDougall
So you know, and maybe at the beginning, you're gonna have to literally repeat what that person has said. And we've had to do that, where we have to say it in the exact words that came out. Because we were too stuck in assuming what the person wanted to say, we were too angry, that we would just jab back by saying, oh, what I heard was that you think I'm a shitty wife, and that you don't think I ever want to spend time with you? And it's like, no, that's not at all what I said. So we were at a place where we actually had to repeat word for word doc, same word, what Eric said, Yeah. And then once we kind of were able to stop assuming what the other person was gonna say, we got to a place where we were able to paraphrase, what I understood is that you think I work too much, and that you would like to spend more time when you miss

Eric MacDougall
me, I'm unavailable to you. And this is a great way for you, as the listener, to create empathy from your partner and really drive home that you understand them. Yeah. Right. Because now if you really start to know your partner, and you have these conversations, often, you can actually connect to adapts that maybe they're unwilling to share right away. Maybe it's too vulnerable for them to be open about something that's deep down in their heart. And if you start to know your partner, you can kind of connect to that in a really healthy way. You know, it's like, you know, what I'm hearing is that I work too much, and you miss me, but probably even more than that, that maybe you think I'm unavailable to you? And you're afraid to ask Yeah, right. And then and then it's like, yes, exactly. And then your partner is really going to feel understood.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And I think that the most important part and all of this, it's once that you've ground yourself that the timing is proper, that you're really in a space where you're like, Yes, I can listen to you. The message was said, you listened before speaking. And then you paraphrased or you said in, in your words. The most important part is to verify. And that's just one simple sentence of did I get that right? Or is there anything you need to add? In my understanding? And so then your partner can either, you know, agree with Yes, you did understand me? Thank you, I finally feel seen and heard? Or they'll say, actually, no, not quite. And then they might change the way they said it so that you'll understand them better. Because again, it's their responsibility to make sure they are understood. So by you verifying, they might be like, Yeah, I didn't say that. Right. Let me submit, let me start over. And they might say it, or they might repeat it in the exact same way they said it for at the beginning. But the whole idea here is that you want to seek to be understood, and your partner wants to seek to understand. So if both of you have the same intention, and you trust that the things that are coming out of my mouth are true, and the things that are coming out of your mouth are true. And we both have the best intention for each other. Well, then this communication is foolproof.

Eric MacDougall
Yes, 100%. And this is why you want to continue to move towards this and master it. Because over time, these very hard conversations are going to be much easier to you know have to manage to connect to and you're actually going to start revealing a lot of these things that are you know, hidden below the surface deep down and that creates a lot of security in your relationship which then allows you to feel more connected and leave room for a lot more pleasure and adventure.