Partnership Quickfires

One question leads to another as Kate and Eric take on a quickfire Q&A about the quirks, habits, and healing conversations that shaped their marriage.

Here’s what they covered:
➡️ What we used to argue about that now seems silly
➡️ Habits we still find annoying in each other
➡️ What a real apology looks like
➡️ How we decide when to speak up or let it go
➡️ The one conversation that changed our marriage
➡️ What we wish we did more of
➡️ What helps us stay strong

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TRANSCRIPT:

Today, I thought we would answer headlights there. So I put in a post on Instagram, and a lot of people asked us a bunch of questions. I wanted to do, like a quick fire style. Love that we got a bunch of questions. So what I did is I actually separated them. So I picked a I picked some relevant questions so that we can answer them based on our 21 years of being together what we've learned, how much we screwed up, and do it in a way that the listeners can benefit from them. Oh, okay, so yeah, there's kind of three categories this episode. I thought we would focus more on, you know, kind of the basics of marriage and partnership, kind of what makes our partnership work so well. And really break that down. So I sent you the questions. You have a question I got I got them. Okay, awesome. So let's text, yeah, let's dive right into it. Got it? Yeah. So what's the first question?

What's something you used to argue about that you now laugh at

I used to, but I think it's just we've grown up together, right? And I think that sometimes people forget that, especially in long term marriages, like you think, oh, you know, we've been together for so long and whatever, like you sometimes forget that like you've grown up a lot, like we started dating when we were teenagers, or like very young adults. So I think that I was growing and moving into a big city from a small town, so I kind of had, like, some quirks and things that I wasn't used to, like smells and sights and sounds that I wasn't used to. And I used to be very outspoken about things like, Oh, something smells funny here. Wow, that looks weird. I like, stare a lot, like I would stare a lot. And Eric, you are also from a small town, but had been in the big city and had a lot more experience with different types of people versus me. So we would go out in public and like you would get so shy about me, like experiencing the city for the first time and all its diversity and cultures and sights and smells and things. So I think that we used to argue a lot, because you would be, like, kind of shy and embarrassed about me being so like, starry eyed, or like staring at people like I would literally like, just sit there and be like, Yeah,

I think you were, like, very outspoken. Maybe, I don't know what it was like back then for you, but it maybe was, like, your way of dealing with your own discomfort. But yeah, it was like, You, I remember you being pretty obnoxious about it.

Yeah, sometimes I would be, sometimes I would be. And I remember you getting like, really mad about it, and, like, telling me, like, you know, like, that's enough. Like, like, you have to stop doing that. And I think what got us out of those arguments was me growing up and experiencing the city and seeing, you know, the big lights and the different people and all those things. But also, I think me growing up and realizing, like, staring and maybe making outward comments is not the best way to cope with your discomfort and anxiety, right? I would say that was something that we used to argue a lot about, like, early on, like, when you said that's the first thing that came to mind was, like, man, we argued a lot about that. Yeah,

the other thing that came up for me was we used to argue a lot about the amount of time that I'd want to spend on my own. You remember that it was like, I would want,

like, I actually was reading my diary the other and there was actually something written in it that was like, dear diary. Eric sucks so much because he wants to hang out all the time by himself or with his buddies. What about me? He told me he loved me. But does he really love me? Yeah. So

I think that was a point of contention for us, yeah, because I spent a lot of time on my own. I was in service industry. I spent late nights out. I was really tied to my freedom, yeah,

and I think you also were somebody who grew up like you didn't really have a family unit, that you were kind of like, quote, unquote, forced base. Yeah. You were kind of like a vagabond. You kind of went from home to home to home to home, couch surfed and whatever. So you were very comfortable with being on your own. And I was like, Hey, we're in a relationship. We need to do things together all the time. Yeah? And I

think it's funny now how much the roles have kind of reversed, right? In the sense of, like, I'm much more introverted. I want to stay home, yeah? Like, oftentimes, like, I need friends to help me get out of my shell. Like, dude, you need to travel come see us. Or you're like, Man, you need to get out there and hang out with your friends. Yeah, right, yes, I do, yeah. That's

very right. You're right. I haven't seen a human face to face, as opposed to you. You're

much more like the social butterfly, yeah, talking to people. And then sometimes I'm like, Hey, like, you know you're doing a lot of yoga. Can you hang out? So it's kind of funny, I've seen you in a few weeks. Yeah? How, like, the tables have turned? Yeah, I think we're a lot more accepting of our different work works, though, yeah,

I think so. And I think that's kind of like, the main theme about both of our arguments was very much like, these were quirks, these were things about us that it was like, at first it was like, Oh my gosh. Like, why are you like that? And now we're just kind of like, well, that's who you are, like, and I know now like, I know that you're introverted. I know that I can't ask you to go out all the time and do things all the time like that would actually make you very unhappy and very uncomfortable. But I know that I do have to push you a little bit to get out of your comfort zone. So being together for so long, having an open communication, talking often, getting to know each other and continuing to get to know each other, that has helped us conquer these arguments. Get past them, get through them, and obviously have less of them or different arguments.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think we argue a lot less about more intense things.

I'm glad you continued that. So

the next one, what's one habit your partner has that secretly drives you nuts?

I'm not, am I allowed to say this right now, when you pee and fart really loud in the morning?

Okay, that's like every man ever No. But, like, why? Okay, when I pee, no.

You know what? I've been thinking about this lately. Like, Why do men fart so loud, and I'm sorry. Like, this sounds like such an immature thing, but it really is, like, it's driving me crazy. Okay? Like, even sun started farting loud, and I'm like, what is

it like, can you not? Like, make a toot. Like, just There

you go. Like, I can't. I'm not. Mary Poppins, I cannot. I do?

You stretch your butt, you pull on your butt cheek, and you stretch your butt, and then it comes out. I'm just okay. Is it

a habit? I don't know. Yeah, no, it happens a lot, biting,

leaning, too much. Wait, one oh, sorry, one thing.

No, I can understand how that would be like, disgusting to you. And it is like, very it's so much like waking up in the morning going for a pee and letting out a big fart. And even the kids know, like, I'm like, like, even the kids know that's something that happens. You know, it's like a regular happenstance. So I will say, though you're like, why do people do that? I think men do it to, like, assert, like, dominant. This is

they just put their presence like everything, like a dog does. They just, like, shit themselves everywhere, and like, oh my god, yeah, so that's yours. No, no, okay, no, let's be it too. But to be honest, it's when you throw things very honest. No, okay, but no, but like, okay, like a more mature one, like a more grown up one, no, you can do more than one. It's fine, I know. Like, we've been together long enough that, like, if we only had one bad habit or that drove nuts. Okay, like, would we be even in a relationship? I don't know. No, the one like, let's be honest. Okay, then my like, my like, grown up one, my grown up one. It's the fact that you throw things out without asking me or telling me about it, or, like, sometimes you'll, like, throw out kids artwork or things they worked on that look like garbage. Sorry, kids, if you listen to this in the future, that look like garbage. But it wasn't like, there was thought and there was like, for me, it's like, kids things are so precious and so important, and you have to respect them so much because there's so much thought and action put behind it. And sometimes you're just like, they go and open the garbage, and they see their like, Play Doh thing, and they're like, Why did dad throw this out? And you're like, oh, sorry. I thought it was GARBAGE. I'm like, stupid man, you're making worse. Like, just No,

yeah, I agree. I think I I am a little bit cold when it comes to, like, some of these keeps Memorial, yeah, yeah. I certainly wasn't tied to it, yeah. And, but I can understand too, how, like, that would be frustrating to you. Yeah, it's frustrating for the kids too. Yeah, I get it, yeah, yeah, and it is. It's about habit. It drives me nuts, yeah, what about me? What's one habit?

So, man, I don't know. You can do one or two or three. It's a

lot. Okay, so one of the biting my rotates me? No, yeah, no. Actually, it's not like you bite your nails. It's that you bite your nails and then you complain about

biting your nails, yeah, because they hurt. So I always put, okay, I'll be real.

The habit that bugs me, and this bugs me in general, for a lot of people, but especially you, because you do a lot is like, like, you're like, a slave to, like, your phone vibrating or anything. It's like, that takes precedence over everything. Yeah, so we'll be like, in the middle of a conversation, and you like, you go, you pick it up, and you're like, and I'm like, I'm like, Hey, like, we're in the middle,

no, but I can hear you,

I know. And it's like, so I'm just like, sometimes, like, oh, maybe I'll just text her if I want to talk to her. But, yeah, that drives me nuts. And I think in general, that drives like, sometimes I'll be up to dinner with people and like, their phone, and they'll just go start going through their phone, and I'm like, Dude, what are you doing my phone in the car? Yeah.

No. You're like, okay, that's another habit that drives me nuts. The fact that you don't have your phone survivor at every moment ever, like the kid doesn't have a lunch, I'm like, call their dad six hours later, I'm like, and just have my lunch. Thank God I work at your

work. Call. Don't call your dad. Give

him frozen pizza from cafeteria.

The next one who apologizes first after a fight, you

me. Ooh, okay, who genuinely apologizes first? Eric, who apologizes first to, like, take some guilt off their back. Kate, yeah,

I think, I think most of the time, if, like, there's a really uncomfortable fight that we've had or an argument, you're usually the first to, like, want to move past it. Oh, yeah, the one that comes because you're my

keep it under the rug. Let's deal with this

as fast as possible. Yeah? And then I'm like, great, cool. I have an hour and a half to talk about through this, so this is great. And you're just like, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, let's, let's run past it, yeah? I think, like, a genuine apology, maybe a genuine, I don't know, sometimes I will say there's, like, some tension. And I think, like, sometimes I feel the tension and you don't, and so I apologize about it. You know, it's like, Hey, I noticed, you know, things have been disconnecting. I've been holding on for some resentment, like, I'm sorry about that. You know, I don't even know if you notice it, but I think for me, like, I like, sometimes

I notice it, but I'm like, sweep it under the rug. Feels a little awkward right now. Don't talk about it,

yeah? But I would say that typically, you're the first to, like, Come and be like, let's move through

this. Yeah? And I don't think, and I think that's something that's very important to note, is if, like, you're apologizing in that way, because I truly apologize, like I am apologetic, like, when I come to see you and I'm like, Hey, I'm sorry. Like, I'm sorry I spoke to you the way I did. Like, I truly am sorry I spoke to you about the way, the way I did, but I'm not doing it to make your you feel better. I'm doing it. I'm apologizing to make myself feel better. And yeah, that's not what an apology is supposed to be. An apology is supposed to be to heal another person's heart, to help heal another person's heart, and I'm doing it to help heal my heart, to ease some of my guilt that I feel for maybe the way I was acting, or maybe the things I said. So I think that, you know, there's some I think that's something important to note. If you're answering these questions with your spouse, like, you know, take ownership for the kind of apology you're giving. Like, if it's not necessarily something to be proud of, if you're the first one to apologize all the time, if you're just doing it to, like, ease yourself of guilt, versus actually, genuinely apologizing and making sure that you're holding your partner's heart.

Yeah, I think it's certainly like, how you apologize and like, you said, like, the intention, how genuine is, you know, the other thing too, I'll say, is, like, oftentimes it's like, you'll come to apologize, and even after we're repaired, there's still discomfort. And sometimes I can see that's not enough for you. Yeah, you know, you're like, I need like, because the tension is still there for you. And so you're like, it's not working. And I'm like, No, it is, like, we've repaired. It just still sucks, like, because we're hurt, yeah? And I think you sometimes, like, then you're like, Okay, no, let's keep dealing with it. Like, let's do whatever needs to happen for me to feel better. And I think a lot of times couples, that's or individuals, that's what they struggle with, is like, they don't know how to sue themselves. Like, they're always, like, need their partner to feel better. Like, no, no, you need to be happy. Like, you need to tell me that I'm okay, you need to tell me that I'm good. And then, like, I need to feel better. But if I don't feel better, we're gonna stay in this Yeah. But sometimes it's like, you know, it's okay to repair, you've repaired, you've apologized, you've forgiven each other, and then it's okay to, like, feel like shit for an hour, yeah? And it's actually kind of emotionally reeling through it, yeah? And

it's actually healthy for you to feel that, because if you're not ever feeling that, if you're not ever feeling that discomfort, feeling that pain, that threshold for discomfort, becomes smaller and smaller and smaller, and then you just don't have any patience for it, any tolerance, tolerance for it. That's the word. I was like, Yeah. And you end up,

like, numbing out, avoiding it. Never want to talk about it. That's kind of what it gets. Yeah,

I'll read the next one cool. What's one thing you wish you did more of together? Okay, that's my radio voice,

yeah. Even. PG, okay, I know you want to check my bones all the time, but like, let's keep it real.

One thing, you know, what? I wish we did more like playful, adventurous, new things, I think, like getting out of the house and trying something we haven't done. What's one thing that comes to mind right away? Like, like, going to, like, an escape room. Okay?

Together. Nice. Tango. Yeah,

we've done that, but yeah, maybe not tango. Maybe. Like, let's start small. Like, you just want to touch my body, yes? Yeah. More, yeah, what's one thing you want? Yeah, get

out of the house and stuff like that. Well, I mean, if we're keeping a PG, what's one thing I want to do more? So my first thing was, like, like laughing with you. Like, I take so much pleasure. Like, there's just moments when we're in bed at night and we, like, joke around and stuff, and we're just like, laughing out loud. I think I really like, like hearing you laugh too. Like, it's really kind of, I don't make sound when I laugh. Well, no, no, but sometimes, like, you belly laugh, and that feels nice. Like, it's a nice feeling for me to be like, Oh, I could still make my wife laugh, yeah, you know, like, we joke around and it's funny. And like, you know,

what's the funniest thing between us is like, you like, like, it happened the other day. Like, you, you walk in a room and I'm like, are. Already laughing, and you're like, what? I'm like, I know the joke you're about to make. It was like, something laying on the dresser, and I was like, Haha, Eric's probably gonna come in and make this joke. And I was laughing about it already. And then he came in and made, hey,

look at this. And then you start funny because you were like, one step ahead of me. Yeah. What's one thing? You know? What? I wish we spent more time with, like, other growth minded couples, yeah? Like, getting all the couples going to dinner, a couple spending time with other families who, like, have some of the same values that we do. Yeah? I think that's something I wish we did more. Yeah? For

sure. I Yeah. I would love that. Like, more socializing. What's

one thing you each do that helps the relationship feel strong. I don't know what you're thinking. You don't know, okay, what

like we have, it's true, yeah? Like us having strikes like it does help, you know,

fully connected, yeah, yeah. It keeps things

rock salt, like, as I'm like,

No, I would say that is something for sure. Yeah. I'm glad you said that, because you're right. Like, I think for both of us, like, after we and when we're experiencing sexual intimacy, not just like the act of sex, but when we bring sexual energy to our relationship, yeah, or

even just that, like, connected intimate energy, like, definitely, like, it definitely solidifies, like, oh, like, We're doing good. Things are good.

Lowers tension, yeah, yeah, it brings more flirtatious energy. But like,

if that's like, that's, I feel like that's kind of an obvious answer, let's think of something different. What do I bring? What's one thing you do that helps the relationship feel strong?

Um, I'll say for me, like you have really improved as a listener. I think, Oh, you each do, yeah, yeah. I think, I think one thing that I have really appreciated of you, especially over the past, you know, couple years is that, yeah, like, you stopped giving advice. You stopped, like, telling me what to do, you stopped being like, and now you literally just listen. And for me, like, that's such a beautiful thing that I can just, like, kind of work out loud through my thoughts around you, and for you just to, like, listen like the roles were reversed, yeah, yeah. And so, so that's something that I think you do really well, because sometimes I just, like, have a lot just, like, have a lot on my mind. I don't really need anything except you just found bored. Yeah? So here's what's going on. Here's I'm thinking, and then sometimes you'd be like, Ah, shit, that sounds tough, fun. Like, you just hug me, yeah? You'd be like, you know, you okay? And I'm like, yeah, like, I'm okay. It's just like, heavy, you know? And so that's something that you have really improved and do really well.

Thank you. Yeah, what do you think you do?

I think I'm pretty, like, open emotionally. So I think that's something that, like, I tend to take the lead.

Yeah, I think there's something about that's really nice, like, I never have to guess how you're feeling. I can trust that if you're feeling something, you will tell me. And if, whether that feeling is a positive feeling, negative feeling. It's, I know that you're gonna tell me, so I never have to guess. I'm never like, hey, he seems kind of off. Like, if you seem off, and there's something that needs to be spoken about, like, I can trust that you will talk about it, yeah. And

like, when you ask, I'm not, like, this is something too. Like, when you do ask. You're like, Hey, okay, I'm not like, Yeah, I'm fine, yeah. That's not something I do. Yeah. I like, Stop, check in, and then I kind of walk you through what's on my mind, heart, yeah, yeah. I, yeah. I think that's something I do.

Yeah, no. I, yeah, and I appreciate that. And I think that's so, so nice. I think that you also have a way of of, you know, when you say you're going to do something, you say it and you do it

and then

not do it, yeah, no, you really do it. Like you said lately, like, I want to bring more playful energy. I want to be more involved with the kids. And it's like, I can see you. Like, you go out, you buy some new board games. You're like, you know, finding ways to connect with the kids all the time. Like you're, you're really actively like, when you say something, you actually like you do it. So I do appreciate that. Like, Oh, thanks, man. Kind of goes back to like, I never have to guess. Like, yeah, if he says that he's gonna do it, it

feels nice that, you know, I'm in my integrity. And you notice that, you know, the other thing too that just came up for me, that I really like as well, but I think you do super well, thank you, is you, like, often back me up when, like, people question what I'm doing. You know, I find, like, a lot of times what'll happen is, you know, we have a very different style of relating, right? Like you and I, our relationship is very different than most people. So sometimes you'll be out with the kids, or you'll be doing something, and I'm like, you know, doing my own thing, and, you know, like, oh, where's Eric? And it's like, oh, like, Eric, Eric doesn't come through these type of things. Like, oh, why not? Like, I can't believe he doesn't. It's like, oh, yeah, no. It's fine. Like, that's just not Eric's thing. He's busy doing other stuff and, and I always think that like you you're kind of always on my side. You're never like, yeah, he should come. I can't believe he's a job. Like, you're always like, no, like, I respect Eric. I respect his choices. I trust that he's doing what's best right now.

Yeah, I think that's what I was gonna say about myself, something that I bring the relationship that that makes it so strong is I have this, like, deep sense of trust in us and in you. And I know that, you know, if you say like, like you did a few years ago. Like, Hey, babe, I'm gonna quit my job and I'm gonna become, you know, a coach. It was like, that was a very scary thing. I was like, Oh my gosh. Like, what is gonna happen? What is gonna happen? But it was like, You know what, babe, I trust you. I trust that, you know, you'll make the right decisions for this family, and whatever needs to be done, you will do it. And if that means, you know, picking up a an evening bartending job just to make ends meet, like, I know you'll do it. So I think that I do bring that, like, very trusting energy and that very like, you know, confident, like I trust in us. And even when things get really rocky between us, and you have a tendency of, like, pulling away and trying to push me out. And, you know, that's just your shadow self, that's like, your go to shadow. And I always have that, like, very grounding, like, Nope, this is not happening. We're gonna work through this, and we're gonna work through this together. So I think that that's something that keeps us very strong, is that, like, my very fierce, like, confidence in you and in us. And

we're doing this, we're doing it. Yeah, I call it stubbornness, but you know, you know, I call it confidence. I kind of like this. We could just keep, like, saying how awesome we are.

Oh, keep reading both. What's one conversation that changed your marriage for the better? Wow, I

have one that comes to mind for me immediately, me too. But go ahead, okay, might be the same one as it probably is. Yeah, well, so for me, one thing that I think was really important for us to have was a conversation, you know, after I had sobered up and you were still holding on to a lot of pain, and I remember it was like a Tuesday or Wednesday night catch together. And, you know, I had always asked you, like, hey, like, hey, like, are you still working through some of that stuff? For the most part, you were like, yeah, they know it's okay. Like, you know, I'm moving through it. And I think part of you just didn't want to, like, open up that wound, yeah, things again, yeah. And then I remember that night, you know, I had really kind of dug my heels in and kind of said, like, Hey, I think it's important for you to talk about, like, whatever's deep in there that that maybe you're so onto, because, like, this is the space, and I'm okay with you just saying whatever, you know, and awful space for you to just open up, but how horrible it was for you to deal with a husband who was an alcoholic, who was emotionally abusive, who was just horrible, you know, in so many different ways, and to kind of let that out. And I remember, like, for you didn't say anything for a long time. I remember it was, like, good four minutes, like, he didn't say anything, and then finally started to open up. And I think, you know, we were both crying, and yeah, and stuff like that. And I think that that was really good for us, in a sense, to like, release some of that and and just say, like, yeah, like it was, you know, for you to tell me, like, it was so shitty, like you were horrible. You were absolutely horrible, you know what I mean, and for me to be like, Yeah, I was and it's not okay, and it's not fair and and, you know, you decide to stick around, and what I did was really

bad. Yeah, I was gonna say that was probably a really big one for us, because it was like, the first time that I had really opened up about, like, a lot of the struggles that I had felt in that time. But I think in that conversation, it really opened up my eyes to like you as well, because there was things said in that conversation that were, like, very revealing to me, things that I didn't know like, things that you were going through. And I think we ended up talking about, you know, this was before we did a lot of our childhood, inner child work and through therapy and stuff, and I remember you talking about your childhood and saying things about, you know, fear of abandonment, and these were things I didn't know about you before. And I was like, whoa. Like, this kind of makes sense that this is the person he would maybe end up being. And so I think that that was like, Yeah, most definitely one of the, one of the catalysts for, you know, where our relationship is now and where it is today. And I think that, you know, I was still healing from people saying, you know, leave him, leave him. You should leave him. Why are you still with him? I can't believe you're still with him. I can't believe you put up with this for so long. Like, how much longer are you gonna put up with this? And I think that conversation just solidified our bond and solidified that idea of, like, well, that's why I'm still here. Like, this bond that we have, this connection we have is, like, unbreakable, and it's nobody can will ever understand what we have gone through. And you know how we work through that together, and when everybody else was ready to, like, throw in the towel, we were, like, still running that marathon. And it was like, and in some parts we still are today, you know, still healing from that. And. Still working through it and not giving up. And there's some days where it's way harder than others, but you know, that was the conversation that started all and then from there, it just kind of gave me permission from seeing, like, your reaction to it, and the fact that it was like, it was a very safe space for me to open up and talk about those things. And you were like, I understand, yeah, you're right. That sucks. A lot of validating, a lot of like, I understand that must have been so tough. Like, not trying to dismiss what I was feeling, not trying to make excuses for it, just completely, like, understanding. And then I think that kind of, like, turned something on. For me that was like, Hey, you can probably talk a little more about your heart. You don't have to guard it as much anymore. Like, I've already always guarded my heart from the time I was a child, I guarded my heart. And so for me, that was, like a very strange thing to open up to somebody, and then to have that, like permission to open up to someone was, like, weird and like, you know how many years later, 789, years later, like, I'm still learning to open up my heart to you. But that was like, that would have not happened. We wouldn't be where we're at now, if we didn't have that conversation, if there wasn't so so much empathy and like, understanding from your parts, yeah.

And I think one of the things that I think a lot of I want to say younger couples, maybe just couples in general, like, don't really comprehend until later on, is that we always say it in our manager, like, two things can be true, right? And so this is something that a lot of couples have a hard time with. Is like to be like, I am so angry at you, like, I'm so I want to wring your neck and I love you, like, you know what I mean, and to, like, have both those feelings side by side, and like, jump into one or the other. Like, because a lot of couples out there, like, well, I just resent my husband, so I guess it's over. Yeah? Or like, you know, I'm just so, like, I'm just so angry at my wife and what she did, or

thinking of this all or nothing, like, Yeah, I'm so angry at him I never am going to be able to get past this. And it's like, maybe that's how you feel now, but it doesn't that's not necessarily like a permanent feeling, like you may be able to, yeah, and

it's really up to you, right? And I think that in that moment when I was like, hey, like, you want to let this out, you have to decide to be like, hey, like, do I want to unleash this thing that, like, I'm not even sure Eric is going to be able to hold, which is just like, partly rage. And I think

a lot of it was, like, I didn't want to open up wounds for me, but I also didn't want to open up wounds for you, or invalidate the work that you had just done. Like, right? You went through sobriety, we got past it, like, and I saw that you, like, literally did, like a 180 and I was like, you know, this isn't the same man that I'm married years ago, and it's not the same man that I even knew, like a few months ago. Like there was literally a 180 so I didn't want to open up that wound and then for you to feel like, Oh, I'm so horrible. Because, like, you weren't horrible, like, it was just you were going through something, yeah,

and I did horrible things at one point, yeah. And I think that's that's so beautiful, that you're able to kind of accept that is, like, that, hey, Eric's done all this work, and he's changed. And, like, the pain and the memory of what happened and does not go away, just yeah, like, there's still healing that needs to be done, right? And I think that's really important to acknowledge in a lot of relationships, is, like, just because one partner has changed, like, I hear this with men all the time, it's like, can't you see that I change? Can't you see that I changed? And it's like, yeah, she can see it. Can't you see that she's still in pain? Yeah, you know, why would like, why does it just validate? Oh, I'm better now. So you need to stop,

yeah? And things like that don't just like, disappear, yeah? And it's like, she needs your help to get away. She needs, you know, to be able to let it out. And so I think that's really important, that in that moment that you honored yourself and were able to say, like, my pain is still real, yeah. So you've changed, and my pain is still here, and I need to heal it, yeah?

And I love how this kind of segues into like, the next question, which is probably my favorite, is, how do you decide when to let something go versus bring it up? And I think for me, this is something I'm still working on, because I let a lot of things go. I let things slide. I'm like, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. Deal with it. Deal with it. Sweep it on the rug. No big deal just because I'm conflict avoidant. But I'm realizing that the more I'm doing that the like, the resentment builds, the hurt builds, then all of a sudden I feel like, wow. I feel like taken advantage of. And it's like, well, that's on you. You're not bringing things up. So I think when it comes to this, I think that when something comes up that makes you feel uncomfortable, that makes you feel bad, I don't think there's anything wrong with like talking it out with somebody else, some that somebody you trust, if you don't have somebody in your life you trust, maybe talking it out with a therapist, maybe journaling about it, writing it, reading about. It, you know, thinking on it for few hours, few days, if you need to, and then understanding that, like, if this is something that is like, still irking you, like, a few days later, like, I think that's important to bring it up, and not in an aggressive way, but just to be like, hey, this has been on my mind and my heart, and I think that now would be a good time to talk to you about it. Like, yeah, because there is the opposite of, like, if something feels weird, I'm gonna bring it up right away. And then it just becomes, that's when the nagging and the like, controlling and the feeling unbridled self expression, right? It's just, like, just, I don't feel good, so I'm gonna let it out. Yeah, I'm gonna talk about it now. I'm gonna talk about it now. I'm gonna talk about it now. I was like, Okay, I'm it's like, okay, like, maybe digest it for a few days and see if it's even worth, like, bringing up and and so I would say that's how I decide to, like, bring something up or either let it go, is meditate on it, think about it, you know, talk to a friend about it. And sometimes just say, like, is this is something I should bring it up or let it go. And most of the time, a good friend will be like, Nah, girl. Like, this is he's never done this before. I'm not sure it's ever gonna happen again. If it happens again, bring it up, but otherwise, like, let it go.

Yeah. Usually I love it. You said that. And I think it's really up to the individual. Like, for me, what I often recommend is, like, to use your own internal metric, like, but you also have to do your own work. Like, so for me, like, when I really think about me and for myself, it's like, okay, so something happened, and I felt this, like you talked about this sense of injustice, or I'm starting to build resentment, or I'm frustrated or hurt or anything like that, which is that, like, that gut feeling, you get that, like, oh yeah, like that. And then so, so then what I do is I try to, like, coach myself through it. So first, like, I give a lot of grace. I'm like, Hey, trying to see it from this person's perspective. In this case, like, Kate's perspective, like, Okay, well, she's really busy, so maybe she's just a little more irritated or Curt than usual she's got. So I kind of like give a lot of grace, right? And then I also, like, soothe myself to be like, hey, just, you know, it's all good. Have some gratitude, and let's just let this one go for a bit. If I go through all that, and the experience is still coming up for me, I'm still feeling resentment. I'm still feeling this intensity of like, oh, this is like, not okay. Typically, it's because one of two things happen. Either number one, the intensity of what happened is really hurtful. So, you know, maybe you did something that really hurt me, right? And so the intensity of that pain is something that I can't work through, that I actually need your help to work through, or it's the consistency of what is happening, which means that I'm working through it, but then it comes up, then I'm working through it, then it comes up, and then I'm working through it. It's like something that happens over and over and over and over again, and then so in that moment, I'm like, Hey, like, this has happened now eight or nine times, yeah. But if it happens like, three,

four times, yeah, in the proximity, it's a good time to bring it up, yeah. And then again, like, when I bring it up, it's Hey, I noticed this thing. Here's a story I'm telling myself about it. Here's what some of the feelings I'm having when I tell myself that story. Myself that story, you know, and typically when I make the request, usually what I'm requesting is actually your experience. So I'm like, Hey, can you just like, let me in on what's happening for you in the moment? Like, is this something you're even aware of? Like, typically, I don't ask you to change your behavior until I try to understand what your experience is, because you might be like, Oh, my God, I didn't even realize I was doing that, you know? I mean, yeah. And so in that case, you'll just correct the behavior, yeah, and or sometimes it's not even about behavior. Sometimes it's just about creating awareness around it. And then it's like, and in that conversation, I'll say something like, wow, I don't even notice I'm doing it. Thanks for bringing it up. Can you like, if I do it again, can you, like, point it out because, like, I'm having trouble seeing it and like, Go kindly. Like, that's one of those times you're doing it. Like, oh, okay, okay, yeah, I love it. So next episode, we're gonna do all around sex and intimacy. So we're gonna have some quick fire ones for that. If you're listening to us on YouTube, just give us a follow so you can get you know announcements when the new videos come out. And then, of course, we always love ratings and reviews. If you're listening you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple podcast, and if you're a man who wants to learn to lead his marriage and family in a healthier way using healthy masculine leadership, you can go on our website, evolve marriage.com, and you can click the work with me to apply to join the evolvements Collective to see if it's a good fit for where you're at and what you want to create in your life.