The 6 Pillars of Intimacy with Tony and Alisa Dilorenzo

Eric has a conversation with Tony & Alisa DiLorenzo, hosts of the One Extraordinary Marriage Show, and authors of the 6 Pillars of Intimacy.

As co-hosts of the top marriage podcast in Apple Podcasts, the ONE Extraordinary Marriage Show, Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo speak to a worldwide audience about sex, love & commitment, and challenge every listener to make their relationship a priority. Their best-selling book, The 6 Pillars of Intimacy, has transformed countless marriages around the world. This framework is simple, practical, and powerful. You’ll be inspired to look at your marriage through a new lens and be encouraged by its common sense approach.

We chat about:

➡️ The 6 Pillars of Intimacy

➡️ The difference between physical and sexual intimacy

➡️ Why Emotional Intimacy one of the most important pillars

➡️ Easy ways to level up your recreational intimacy

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Tony Dilorenzo
how are you?

Alisa Dilorenzo
Oh, we're so happy to be here.

Eric MacDougall
I'm awesome. I want to start with kind of a bit of a story. Because when Kate and I started this podcast, I'll never forget, we were sitting down. And we were writing down like, oh, who could be our guests. And I remember Kate saying like, imagine we got Tony and Alisa, like, would that be insane? I feel like we made it. And I remember when you said like, Oh be on the podcast. I told Kate and she was like, wait, what? From like the sorting of our show? And I was like, yeah, they're like, what? That's amazing. Oh, yeah. So it really felt you guys have been part of our lives, I think for the last five years or so. Kind of on our whole personal growth journey ever since kind of a lot of our troubles started. And we've turned everything around. So I just want to say how much of an honor it is to have you on here and kind of come full circle and have a conversation with you.

Tony Dilorenzo
Awesome, thank you. No, it's just cool. It's cool to hear that because at least I have been podcasting since January 2010. And it's really cool to get on and do interviews on other shows over the years from folks who have like, listened to ours and others and gone. You know what we're gonna do it because we have a twist, or we have something that we want to share. So it's always cool for us to get on and in and get to know you guys this way. Because it's like, wow, we started many years ago.

Alisa Dilorenzo
It's been a long time, longtime behind the microphones. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
I think you can tell by your energy, by the way that you do the show. I think you're part of so many couples lives. And I think just like us, you know, you had such an impact just on hearing you every week and hearing just you as inspiration. So it's really awesome to have you here. It's a total honor.

Alisa Dilorenzo
The honor goes both ways. Because we don't take it lightly when we're invited into someone's marriage. Yeah, through the podcast. And yeah, it actually just it kind of trips me up. I didn't know the backstory.

Eric MacDougall
It's all good.

Alisa Dilorenzo
Thank you for sharing that with us. Because the honor. You know, we often say it on our show, you know, we get up every morning knowing that our our goal, our job is to impact one marriage. And so even just the first couple of minutes of this podcast episode, it's very impactful to know that we've had an impact on yours. Yeah, I'm

Eric MacDougall
glad. And so today, I really want to talk about your new book, which was released last November, the six pillars of intimacy, which I absolutely love, how practical it is, and how real it is. I think I do a lot of reading, especially around marriage. And Ken and I are such different learners, that whenever I bring a book to her that were hey, let's let's read this book together. Her first thing is is like this gonna be all psychobabble. Like is it going to be really high level stuff? Yeah. And I'm like, No, it's super practical. It's really great to listen to, it's actionable. And it can like really have an impact, right. And so I really appreciate you putting that out there. Because while it is a lot of stuff is really high level. It's also very practical, which I think is important in this day and age when there's so much information coming at us. So I just honor you for kind of the way it was written. And how again, you're impacting so many people even through that book

Alisa Dilorenzo
for me and writing the book that was a big, that was a big consideration. I actually as I was writing it kind of envisioned Who am I sitting down across the table from having a cup of coffee, but what are we talking about? And what you just shared there? I've heard from so many people, it was just kind of having a conversation and you just sit there God. Okay, what does it look like? Here's, here's the concept. What do you do with it? Because I think we can, you know, and I know Tony and I have done it too. You read a lot of marriage books and you're like great theory. Sounds amazing. How do we implement it in our Marriage and actually see transformation. And that was that's a huge part of the heart behind the Six Pillars of intimacy is I don't want people just to read the book. I want people to read the book and do something with, you know, a nugget in each one of the chapters around the pillars of intimacy to to say, oh, you know what, I can do that we can do that.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, I think that's absolutely awesome. And I wanted to dive in to this explosive intimacy, and specifically on two specific ones that I think will be really powerful to share today. So people can then go read the book and kind of get the rest. But before we jump into that, I always love asking our guests a really great question, which is, what's an area of your life, your marriage that you are currently evolving? What's an area of growth that you think has been a real focus for you?

Tony Dilorenzo
Can we each have our own answers? Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
absolutely. Yeah, we'd love to hear from each of you.

Tony Dilorenzo
Because I think it leaves in I love different ones to address. I'll let you go first. Well,

Alisa Dilorenzo
and we'll talk about this a little bit more in this episode. But one of the things that Tony and I talk about a lot is recreational intimacy, what are those fun? What are those experiences that you have? How are the two of you creating memories, and we literally just had a an experience, we were visiting friends on the East Coast, they live on a lake, they have kayaks, my last exposure to being in a kayak was in the ocean, it was not a good experience. And so you know, we were at their lake house, Tony says, Let's go kayaking, I dig my heels in and I'm like, No, not going to. And it became a couple days sort of mini battle, and

Tony Dilorenzo
not horrible. Sort of like, hey, you know, recreational intimacy is all well, that closeness and connection around activities, dates, doing fun things together, and I'm like, we have the perfect opportunity. Like, we don't have to go anywhere, we don't have to drive anywhere, we don't have to rent them, we don't have a time limit nothing. They're sitting on the dog, let's jump in some kayaks and go around this cold. It's not crazy.

Alisa Dilorenzo
And so I had to really, for me identify where my resistance was, and why I didn't want to go. And so that was a huge learning moment for myself individually for us as a couple, but also just going okay, where do I see those points of resistance in other areas of marriage? And what can I do to work through them. So I'm working a little bit on the recreational intimacy and stepping out and doing more fun.

Tony Dilorenzo
Yeah. And I think for myself, for myself, it's the sexual intimacy in from a completely different perspective than say, when we were younger Mary's, we're going to celebrate our 26th anniversary here in a little bit. And with that, aging happens, kids are leaving, there's a different dynamic that goes on. And so what does it look like for both of us, and for myself, as well as those transitions happen, because what used to be sort of like just normal for us living out what we call our intimacy, lifestyle, scheduling sex, we're just so on target for so long. There since this summer just shifts of kids leaving and in one getting older driving, and it's just sort of changed things up and then aging as well, in so I think that's the one that I'm really sort of focusing on growth wise wellness, what does that look like to be healthy and, and feel vibrant? So that's where I'm at?

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that and really being open and honest about it for both of you, because there is a huge psychological aspect, right to each of those. You know, I love that you talked about the resistance, because we find that as well, Kate and I are in our marriage. It's like what is preventing us from going out and doing these activities regularly? What is the resistance? But a lot of times we look outwardly, right? Like, oh, it's our it's our finances, or it's, you know, our time and all that stuff. But there's also often an insight resistance to it, right? Which is the mind saying, Hey, is it too hard? Maybe you should maybe it's a better time to do it. And especially you Tony talking about the sexual intimacy. There's also a psychological aspect to that, right? You have so many changes going on in your life. And then what does that mean for you as a man, he was a partner and a husband. And as exciting as it is, it is definitely challenging as well. So I appreciate you sharing that. Yeah. So why don't you start by sharing, you know exactly what the six pillars are, we can go kind of quickly into each of them. And then I would love to dive deeper into two of them specifically emotional and recreational.

Alisa Dilorenzo
Well, the six pillars just to give everybody an overview. And just to back up even a second pillars do some really amazing things like from an architectural standpoint, and that's the reason why we refer to them as the six pillars. In architecture, these are the structures in a building that will, they'll add beauty, we can think of those buildings that have pillars, and there's just something majestic about them. They can add strength to a building right? These are you know, it helps to hold things up but they also because they add strength are able to carry weight. And so these six pillars do all three of those functions in a marriage. And so the first one and you were touching on it pretty extensively in this episode will be emotional intimacy. And so that's the closest connection that comes from your verbal and nonverbal communication. How the two of you talk about your thoughts, your feelings, desires on all of

Tony Dilorenzo
that, yeah. And then we have your physical intimacy, and this is your non sexual touch. And we really made this a point, we have our physical intimacy, and we'll talk about sexual intimacy. But this is non sexual touch. Can it lead to that? Absolutely. And this is different for every couple is it, you know, for you and Kate is it just, you just love to give each other long hugs, and you just sink into one another for another couple of maybe, hey, they love French kissing. For other couples, it's cuddling naked, or just having their hands holding hands down the street or whatever it is. But every single couple has some aspect of that physical intimacy that they just feel close and connected with one another.

Alisa Dilorenzo
The third pillar is your financial intimacy. And these are two words that a lot of couples are like, I don't think that actually belongs in the same phrasing. Because your financial intimacy is how the two of you stay close and connected in everything that deals with money. So we're talking about, you know, whether it's your budget, retirement insurance, and even going so far as to your estate planning, right, and making those decisions over the course of a lifetime and building intimacy in that area. Yeah,

Tony Dilorenzo
spiritual intimacy is the next one. And that is your closeness and connection around your religious beliefs and practices. And this can range from devotionals Bible studies, praying together, whatever that is serving together for the two of you. That's how you get close and connected. We've seen this over the years and talk to me a couple of words individual, that's our individual journey. And yet, how are we bringing that together in our marriage, and strengthening our pillars of intimacy by that closeness and connection and your spiritual intimacy. pillar

Alisa Dilorenzo
number five is recreational intimacy. And this is the fun, right? This is the two of you create memories, have new experiences together, do the things that maybe you did when you were dating and over the life of a marriage, like, Yeah, we don't do that so much anymore. So that involves all the aspects of recreational intimacy,

Tony Dilorenzo
and then sexual intimacy, we actually expand this, Eric. And sexual intimacy is that closeness and connection when you romance one another when you initiate with one another foreplay, and sexual intercourse. And so we really looked at this one as a way of going, sexual intimacy isn't just that sex, like, we can have sex, we can have sexual intercourse. And yet, how are we strengthening this at different times throughout the month of the year? What are we doing that allows us to get close and connected not just through this sexual intercourse? But that foreplay the initiating and that romance?

Eric MacDougall
Yeah. And I love how you're, as you're talking about them, how specific you make each of them, right. For me, one of the things I love the most about them was separating physical and sexual. Only because you know, even when Kate and I look at our relationship, when we think about physical, it's very, it's very much about caregiving, right? Oftentimes, we use our physical touches a different language, we do a lot of hugging and breathing together, in order to kind of center us. And so to us, that was so important. I do that with my kids as well, right. One of the big ways that we connect as a family is to touch is to hug is to hold each other. And I think oftentimes, we relate touch to sex, especially as a couple right in a marital relationship. And so that's one of the blockages that I think I found way back in my relationship was every time I touch Kate, immediately her mind would start going and being like, Oh, crap, this is going to lead to, which would would all be this resistance? So I think, yeah, using your model, and really separating those two, not only, you know, allowed us to touch each other more outside of the bedroom, but also for Kate, who's the low desire partner really created a sense of freedom for her that she could just touch me openly without the fear that oh, this is going to have to lead to something. Yeah, I absolutely love that you separated those two? Well,

Speaker 2
and we've heard that that same revelation from a number of people who have read the book that that one chapter, really brought so much freedom to couples that and I remember having a conversation with a wife and she said your words were the first time I was able to actually explain to my husband, that not every touch had to lead to sex. And so when it becomes this opportunity for a couple to really put language around disconnect, all of a sudden they find new opportunities to connect. So I love hearing how that impacted you. And Kate, yeah,

Eric MacDougall
yeah. Thanks. So did you want to start with emotional intimacy? I think this is something couples talk a lot about. Yeah. And I think there's kind of an unspoken language, right? And that emotional connection sometimes too.

Speaker 2
Well, you know, we hear so much from you know, the days when you first start dating someone, you know, it's like, oh, we need to communicate, we need to communicate better. We need to communicate differently. And your what we realized is that it's not just the words that are spoken. Right, so much of it. Yeah, you can read books say this. Don't say that, you know, this tone of voice, that tone of voice, but it's getting into what are we actually creating here through our verbal and nonverbal communication? How do we stay close and connected? When maybe you grew up in a family that that didn't talk about feelings, but your spouse grew up in a family where everybody's talking about feelings all day long? And how Do you find a way to knit the two of you together. And then I referenced in the book that, you know, emotional intimacy is really the workhorse. This is the one that everything sits on, because how the two of you share what's going on inside of you will impact your finances. It'll impact your physical touch your spiritual practices, whether or not you even want to do things together in recreational intimacy or have sex with one another. And so it's really building that depth of saying, Look, we're going to build this together, we're going to learn. And I think this is a key point for a lot of couples. How do you learn how to do marriage? Well, because it's not a given that everybody's going to do marriage? Well, straight out the gate. Yeah,

Tony Dilorenzo
and this one is to Eric, I would say, a lot of us will, as Elisa said, Hey, I grew up in a family that didn't communicate very well. Or on the other side is, well, I grew up in a family where we just communicated everything. And I would say to those of us who grew up in families who were not as proficient and sharing what's going on, this is a learned skill. This is something that you can step into. And if you're intentional, and you take action in this area, you can grow this, you can really learn the skill. When Elisa and I started the one afternoon marriage show in 2010, what you see now is the 12 and a half, almost 13 years of progress of growth. This isn't how we started, if you go listen to some of the early episodes, please do not email us do not DM us, we know we're a hot mess. We know, I know, personally, whenever Lisa would say something that would start agitating the air, I would I would shut her down. And that we had to learn we have ran over here in Elise's office, a, an emotion wheel, and understanding what's really going on, you know, so that way, I can explain it to her. And so there, I do want to tell folks all the time, because I just hear it's just like, well, I can't do that I didn't learn it. Well, you have the opportunity now to step in and start going. And learning that there are many different ways to go do that, if you so choose, it doesn't have to be just, you know, sitting down, you know, need a knee across from one another, holding each other's hands looking deep into each other's eyes and having to spill everything out. You don't have to do that there are many different ways that you can communicate your desires with one another and get close and connected.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, I love that you're touching on an I was taking notes as you were kind of writing because as you were speaking, I think one of the biggest issues that I found working, I work with a lot of men, but even couples, that they don't have the language to explain what's going on. And they also kind of like what you mentioned, Tony, way back when in those early episodes. There's a fear of experiencing that kind of feeling, right? So sometimes when the feeling gets uncomfortable, and you're like, Wow, this doesn't feel good, especially as men, but I think people in general, we want to get rid of the feeling, right? And we're like, I don't like the sadness. I don't like this frustration. I don't like this emptiness. So I need to do something about it. And a lot of times what I when I work with couples and work with men, I say, hey, you know, the biggest thing around emotions is to understand, they're not good or bad. Like they just happen. You're out there in your body. So being angry is not bad. But the action you take from that place is going to impact you people around you, it's going to impact what you create in your life. Right? So yeah, you have to be very careful about number one, really trying to understand what's going on for you. But then also, you know, what are you doing when you feel that way? You know, because I've seen a lot of men where and women too, but it's like, whenever I feel frustrated, I don't even know I'm frustrated. But I'm going to take this energy, and I'm gonna go to my partner, right? Yep. Right. And I'm going to essentially try to get them to fix them, fix me, quote, unquote, make me feel better. And if they can't, I'm just going to suck them into it. And that can often be on a cycle happens if we don't kind of create space for these emotional experiences, because we're emotional beings, like you said, this is the workhorse of the six pillars. Yeah. I'd love to know, just kind of expanding on it. What are some things that you find really help couples kind of tap into this emotional growth? Together? I mean, what specifically do you suggest? Yeah,

Speaker 2
so like Tony said, the I think couples picking up something like an emotion wheel or Google emotional faces. I mean, there's all kinds of stress, you know, resources that are out there. But a lot of times we have to under you just understanding that there's more than just being angry, happy or sad or scared, can be a huge breakthrough for couples to go, Oh, what am I feeling? Oh, this is actually insecurity. This is worry, this is overwhelm. And even just developing that language around feelings can be a huge breakthrough for couples because now it's not one you're totally angry at you and people are like, Yeah, I'm not dealing with that. I don't want your anger. But if you can go to your spouse and say I'm feeling really overwhelmed at the amount of things that I've got on my plate right now. Now we can do something. We can create a plan so really, you know, developing the ability To get in touch with what I am feeling pretty much what you were saying earlier. I think too, for a lot of couples shifting the dynamic from sitting across from one another. When they have conversations, I know a Tony, I've been married almost 26 years, in the early years of our marriage, when we would go and look for resources, the prevailing philosophy at that point in time was that you do need to sit across from a table and you need to be making eye contact the entire time. And it doesn't matter how uncomfortable you are, how much that activates all of your nervous system to short circuit, stay there and push through and have a conversation. That doesn't work for us. My mom, I have two teenagers, my mom I comes out whether I want it to or not, and Tony doesn't enjoy it. And sometimes I can't control that. And so shifting the conversation from going up, you know, basically being in opposition sitting across the table from one another to being side by side, we call it our walk and talks. Yeah. So not only are we side by side, which puts us on the same side. But we're also moving. And you know, as we're talking about these emotions, those emotions have energy, and they need someplace to go, the good ones and the bad ones need that energy needs to go someplace. So if you're walking while you're having these conversations, you're dissipating the energy at the same time that you're practicing the emotional intimacy. And that's huge for couples to really feel like, oh, okay, it wasn't so scary, because I didn't have to stare into your face. And I was able to release the energy at the same time that I was sharing my feelings.

Tony Dilorenzo
Yeah. And I would say one other one I would just add is because of how many episodes we have, and and couples have shared with us many times is they want to bring up something you know, they want to bring up, you know, an issue that is going on in their marriage with one of the pillars. They don't know how, and so they get stuck there. And then when they find the episode, where Lisa and I are a couple episodes where Lisa and I are talking about it, and they can hear us talking about it, it becomes that bridge for them to go, Hey, can you listen to this, and then we can go on our walk and talk or we can go for a drive or we can go sit down at a coffee shop and hang out. But it's not me just bringing it up to you. It's a Tony and Lisa, were talking about this. And they brought us some really cool things that I couldn't necessarily verbalize. But now I can. So if we can just listen to it, and then discuss that, that would be super helpful for for me. And we've seen many marriages do that and the connection they have and the closeness and connection, they have their emotional intimacy because of it.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, and I love just the visual of you guys being the third party to the conversation. You know, this is what I say all the time is like, you know, when typically it's like, oh, my wife will go to therapy, or my husband go to therapy. And it's like, there's so many options to have a third party in your life, whether it's Hey, you know, Tony and Lisa are suggesting this Have a listen, let me know what you think, and what you take away from it. Let's frame a conversation around their model. And so I think I think it's really cool that couples have such easy access to you in that way. And I love the idea of the walk and talk. It's something I always do. We've always done it since you've mentioned it. Yeah, only because this idea of the momentum and propelling us forward is such a great visual energetically for us. That it's really helped us, you know, process a lot of these things that we're feeling good. Yeah, and the other thing too, just kind of like ending on this idea of the emotional aspect of the walk is I find it also creates a lot of space for silence, which is powerful. I find when you're sitting across from each other, the silence can be deafening, right, where you're like, This is so uncomfortable to stare at you in silence, as opposed to when you're walking and you're looking around and there's trees, the silence doesn't feel so deafening, right? It's like almost okay. And

Tony Dilorenzo
I think that the the thing there too, it's interesting, you bring that up, because that will happen with us. And what ends up happening is the emotional intimacy, the handholding, happens, physical intimacy, the physical I mean, sorry, the physical intimacy happens, right? Because now it's we're rolling, we may have had some in depth conversation, and there is that silence. And yet, it's the hand going over. And just reaching out going, Hey, we're on the same team. We got this together, we don't need to say anything more. And you're just like, as you said, the birds are chirping or for us, we're down at the beach, Torrey Pines and the waves are crashing, and the sand is under our feet. And we can just sort of go for a little bit until something else may come up to us. And it can be completely different than what we were even talking about. You know what I mean? It's like that ended and we're still walking because we were going to be out for an hour. It's like, okay, well, we're just going to talk about something completely different at this point in time. Yeah.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, that's powerful. So if we were to kind of shift and move on to recreational intimacy, which I do want to say, you know, when I talk to a lot of couples, typically the conversation is around, I'm sure just like you, you know, at least you do a lot of coaching, which is gotta communicate, gotta figure it out, or intimacy got to figure out kind of a plan for our marriage. And I think a lot of us put recreational intimacy on the backburner, right? It's never really a priority or a point of focus, right? Yeah. At least in my marriage. I know for Kate and I, it's one of the things that brings us the most life energy right? It's like how we solve so many problems. Whenever we're in a funk, we're like, hey, we need to have more fun. So let's do everything right now on the shelf. Let's go, I have a bunch of fun. And then we realize a lot of these quote unquote, issues that we thought we had just are non existent now. So I love the clue to this. And I'd love to get your take on recreational intimacy, and really what it means to you.

Speaker 2
Yeah, well, I think a big part of it, too, is if we think back to when we were getting to know our spouses. Right? What did that look like? If we think back, it was going and doing things, having new experiences, trying new restaurants, watching new movies, you know, hiking new path. And so, so many marriages, we're built on doing things together. Right? That's how we got to the point where we're like, Yeah, I think I actually want to spend the rest of my life with you, because I like doing things with you. And then your marriage comes, and you know, the things that we do or raise kids and pay the bills, and you know, go to sporting events for the kids and visit the end life like that's, that becomes the what we do. And when we lose that fun aspect, when we stop having experiences together, the curiosity fades, we can easily get into just being roommates, who are you know, coexisting in this place? And so I love how significant that is to you and Kate, because it is it saying, well, well, you know, what do we want to do? What would we want to try? In coaching, I often encourage couples to make I call it a top 10 list. And I'm like, Look, huge client a sheet of paper, right? Write the numbers down one to 10. Put a theme at the top, is it you know, ideas under $20? Is it overnight ideas? Is it ideas to do on our city whenever you you guys pick. And then it's the only time my clients ever hear me tell them to be selfish, but I say write down a list of 10 things that you would want to do under that heading. Write down your list, it's all wedding ideas. The beauty of this is is that once you've written your 10, and your spouse has written their 10, you can swap that list. And now you've just been gifted 10 winning ideas, that answer the question, what do you want to do? Now you don't have to sit in the driveway. I mean, our kids are older, but when they were younger, yeah, we'd sit in the driveway as we were pulling out and we'd be like, okay, where we go on tonight? What do you want to do? Yeah. And we all know that, that that response is, I don't know, what do you want to do. And you get irritated cuz you got the babysitter inside. So not only have you tried to go do something fun, but now you're irritated, which kills all the fun. But if you know what your spouse wants to do, if you know things that are winning ideas for them, then you can just go plan it, you look like a hero because you're taking something off their list. And you can go have those memories and create the fun.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, I love that. And I think you know, immediately I think as people are listening to this, which this was Kate and I with two young kids. The two biggest things were I don't we don't have time, and we don't have the money. Right? That was a big one. Yeah. And I think you touched on that. Right. Like, even before the before we started recording, we had this idea of like recreation. Intimacy doesn't always mean spend too much money, or you have to go away for the weekend. Right?

Tony Dilorenzo
Absolutely. And that and that's the big thing, Eric, I think over the years, we've always seen this Oh, the date night. And recreational intimacy to us is that closeness and connection through dates, and activities. We didn't say date night there, we said date. So your dates can range from early morning to late night, or anything in between in the activities. Depending on what you enjoy doing the both of you enjoy doing, you can go do but these can this honestly can range from, hey, we're going to just go out because we know the kids are going to be asleep because they're up late. And on Saturday morning, we're going to just get up, we're going to make our coffee or somebody's going to go grab coffee, and we're going to just go sit outside, and we're going to just play some cards together. Or we're going to listen to some music together. You know, it's creating those moments. And those who say, well, we don't have a lot of money, we get it and there was a time and these are some of the most memorable, most memorable memories I have. Of Elise and I dating where when our kids were younger, we didn't have enough money to pay for a sitter, but maybe once every month, once every six weeks. And so what we would do is we had we have two kids, and we both be putting them to sleep. Whoever got the first one to sleep first would be the one who'd go out and go grab dinner. Now there's, I don't know GrubHub and UberEATS and everything so you can have it delivered to you. We would have to go out, go grab it. And then we come we we come home and we put a blanket down on the living room floor. We put some candles out we put some soft music, and we play a game. And even today now that's many years ago, that's probably like 12 1314 years ago, we would do that our oldest is 19 at this point. Now, we love playing Monopoly deal. We don't have kids around like they're not around. We can go out every night if we so choose. Nobody's gonna stop us. And yet we'll sit down we'll have dinner. We'll pull out monopoly deal, and we'll play whoever wins Two out of three. And it's just fun. Like we get to spend time together. It's an activity of playing games, and just letting everything else sort of float away and focusing on the game and one another. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
and I love it. You're speaking to this because I think when Kate and I suggest it to couples as well, we talked about this idea of novelty, right, which I think you talked a little bit about it really so but it's like, it doesn't really matter what you do, but just commit to doing something different. Because I think a lot of times what we end up thinking, and trust me, Kate, and I were like this with young kids. It's like, well, if we're not gonna go out, we're gonna stay in, we might as well just do the thing we always do. Right? Like, if we never play games, why would we play games? Let's just watch TV, like we always do if we're gonna stay here. And then over time, that would weigh on us, right? Because we're essentially becoming a couple who didn't plan dates. Yeah. And so there was one day I remember Kate and I, we made a commitment to novelty, which was, every single week, we have a plan, it's a date night, whether we go out or we stay in, it has to be something new. And that's the only commitment we make to each other. And I remember one time, it was as simple as like, oh, man, we had a really busy night, our kids were sick. And Kate went to the store, she bought a whole bunch of stuff to make s'mores. And we have like a gas oven in our kitchen is middle of winter. And she's literally like, we're gonna cook s'mores over a gas oven. And I downloaded these questions, we're gonna ask each other. Correct. And it was, it was such an amazing night, like, we had such a great time we laugh, we couldn't believe we're taking photos during the summer gas oven. And it's literally something we do regularly now with our kids in the middle of winter, setting the fire, we're just like, Oh, it's so smart as another winter. And I don't think that would have happened if we didn't make this commitment to it has to be something different. Like it has to be something new and novel that creates curiosity, in order to kind of get out of our own way. Yes, I think like you're saying, oftentimes couples, we just get out of our own way. We say, Well, if it's not going to be this, nevermind, right, and we don't do it. And then years go by.

Speaker 2
Yep. Yeah. And it's, it's stepping into this place of saying, I still want to get to know you. Right, I knew you then like I asked you all these questions, and I wanted to do all this new stuff. Before I asked you to marry me. And before I said, Yes. What does it look like to learn who you are now, to keep that curiosity still happening? I mean, it's like, I love that new idea. You're always doing something new. It reminds me of the year that we, I was in Costco before Christmas, and they had the entertainment book. And so I bought the entertainment book for our area. And when I presented it to Tony for Christmas, I told him I said, every date we go on this year is going to come out of the entertainment book. And so we weren't we were trying activities we hadn't done. We were trying restaurants, we had everything because we needed a catalyst to go what is the something new? What is that novelty. And as human beings, we need to look forward to things routine works great for getting you to work on time, and making sure you brush your teeth every night. When it comes to the marriage relationship. We need to make sure there's always an element of novelty, something that we can anticipate. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
I agree. And I do also love the idea of continuing to be curious about your partner, like you're mentioning, because, you know, we're constantly changing, right? I'm sure you've heard the line working with a lot of couples where it's like, well, I already know everything about them. And it's like, well, maybe you know everything about them five years ago, like they're a totally different person now. Right. And they're changing. They're evolving and having new experiences. Yeah. So just get a bit curious and get to know them now today.

Tony Dilorenzo
Yeah, and I'd say at the minimum once a month, it doesn't need to be every week. I mean, I think for Lisa and I, for many years is once a month. And then, you know, we tried to get out now, once a quarter for an overnight back in the day used to be, you know, once every six months, but we found that to be fun as well, just to break things up and get away for a little bit longer from the kiddos. But you know, night away, it's just sort of like, ah, goodness, we can think differently. And then those dates change up a little bit as well, because now you're in a new place. And you're doing different things there. Like typically when we're out on something like that, we'll do what we call progressive dinner. So we'll have an appetizer in one place, we'll have an entree at one place in the desert, one place. That doesn't usually happen when we're here at home in our our own area. For us, it's usually a walkable place, but you can change it up and, and do different things with one another. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
I love that. And I love the practical idea that you mentioned, we said about writing down 10 things. I literally wrote it down. It's something I'm not going to do because we're going on a date night tonight. And it's like, hey, why don't we do this, like, while we're on our date, let's also write down all these fun dreaming ideas that we want. Like, it's amazing. And I think it creates a lot of connection and makes us feel really alive about Yes, I do want to do these things. Right. Here's, here's permission, right, almost like a catalyst to be able to do that, which is powerful. Absolutely.

Speaker 2
And we're when you put those under a theme, then everybody knows what we're planning for, you know, it could be a 30 minute date. It could be you know, like I said dates under $20. It could be an overnight date, but you're using the same framework. And it not only does it give you those ideas, but it gives you an insight into who your spouse is now. So again, wrapping back into that curiosity, what are the things that you're getting excited about at this point in time in our marriage, and how can I better understand you and serve you in the marriage by stepping into those activities.

Eric MacDougall
You Yeah, what a great message. And so I definitely wanna respect your time. I think everybody knows about your podcast, how the one extraordinary marriage show. But more than anything, I really want them to get this book, which is really, really amazing to dive deeper into the other pillars as well. So where can people find you? And where can they pick up your book?

Tony Dilorenzo
Yeah, you can find the book at six pillars of intimacy.com. That will take you to Amazon, you can buy paperback, Kindle audiobook, you can find it in many other retailers as well of your choice. And then you can learn everything about us at one extraordinary marriage.com. We have everything that we are doing there. So either way, jump on in, you're probably listen to this episode on your favorite podcast app, you can open it up and you can search when extraordinaire marriage show as well. Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
it's been an absolute honor. We'll tag that on the show notes. So our listeners can go ahead and click that and pick up a copy of the book. And continue to listen to such great content that you put out. I just honor you so much for the work that you're doing that you've been doing for so long. You not only inspire Kanye, but we always suggest couples listening to you because you guys are just so accessible.

Tony Dilorenzo
Thankyou so much. It's been awesome to be on with you.