The 9 Core Relationship Needs (Part 1)

In this episode, Kate and Eric dive deep into the foundational and relational needs that create thriving, connected relationships.

Topics:
➡️ Emotional safety and trust as the unshakable foundation of intimacy.
➡️ The power of connection, physical affection, and playfulness in relationships.
➡️ Challenging misconceptions about relational needs and their impact on lasting love.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Eric MacDougall
So today we're doing, we're really just starting this two part series around only

Kate MacDougall
because we have too much to say about, it's true. And

Eric MacDougall
we were talking about these, like, correlational needs, and we kind of came up with nine of them, right? That were, like, really important to us, as we were kind of reading about. So we decided, hey, we're gonna do this two part episodes. We're gonna. Tell people, kind of what we think correlational needs are. And I think, to start, you know, one of the things that's really important is to think that, like, these are not just wants, like, a lot of these are needs, right? And these are important human That's right. And we always go back to, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, so the pyramid that he has. You know, a lot of us, when we think about what a need is, we talk about these, like, physiological needs, right? Air, water, shelter, clothing, like we're like, we're a flower, exactly, and, and that's a need, right? These are, these are physiological needs. These are important needs for you to survive. But some people, and I hear, like men especially, often say this. It's like, well, that's not a need, like, I could live without it. And the reality is, like, you might be able to survive for a period of time without it. But again, there's actually studies out there that when we're talking about longevity of life, like a lot of men, die from loneliness, right? One of the the best measures of your life is actually the quality of your relationships. Yeah, and people who have really good relationships end up living much longer than people who don't have good relationships,

Kate MacDougall
right? So I think, I think, let's slow it down here. My goodness, you just, like, jumped ahead. You were like, so excited. Boom, yeah, we're gonna get back to the pyramid here. So remembering that, you know, for those of you who either didn't take psychology in high school or haven't heard it in a long time, but Maslow's pyramid is really five, you know, tiers where you have the base of the pyramid, which is the physiological needs. So basically, everything from food, water, shelter, anything to basically keep you alive, yeah? And, you know, healthy, yeah. Yeah. And then the next on top of

Eric MacDougall
that. So it's like, when you have Yes, physiological needs covered, then the next need and priority is

Kate MacDougall
the safety needs, yeah. And that is, you know, emotional safety, physical safety, like, just yeah, a

Eric MacDougall
lot of times like, job security, financial safety, feeling

Kate MacDougall
generally in your life, yeah, the next one, after, so, after, so, when you your physiological needs are met, your safety needs are met, you can then focus on the third peer of the pyramid, which is for third tier of the pyramid. Geez. Yeah, love and belonging, right? So you know that is really how you feel in relations to others. So how you fall like where you fall in your friendships, your intimate relationships, your work, workplace relationships. Do

Eric MacDougall
you feel loved? Do you feel accepted? Do you feel like you're part of the group, exactly, all that stuff.

Kate MacDougall
And then there's the fourth tier, which is your esteem. So how you view yourself in this world, yeah,

Eric MacDougall
how you receive respect in the world, right? How, how you're receiving affirmation, etc, etc, exactly. So that's a need, right? Like, this is kind of where we often kind of put these needs to the wayside, because we have this, like, needy culture got to be super individualistic and stoic and not have any needs. But the reality is, like, a lot of us need love. We belong. And

Kate MacDougall
I find like the love and belonging tier and the esteemed tier, and even to go as far as the like we didn't even touch on the last year, which is self actualization. So that is, like, how far am I able to bring my life? You know what's happening to your potential? Yeah, like, my potential, my my full potential. Like, can I get there? And until the four other tiers are met, it's impossible to for you to focus or even get to a place where you can reach your full potential, because your focus will be on other parts of your life, other needs. And kind of what you were saying, Eric, like, oftentimes we look at our needs and we're like, oh, you know, I'm very lucky. I have a beautiful home, I have a beautiful life. I have food on my table, and I should be grateful for that. And it's like, yeah, for sure, be grateful for that. But you do have other needs as a human, human being, and Maslow has proved this time and time again, and other people who have worked, you know, based off of this hierarchy, hierarchy, of needs, or off of this theory that the need for love and belonging, the need for esteem and the need for self actualization is a real thing in humanity. It is what makes us different from animals and plants and other living beings on this planet. This is something that, as humans, we have that is very individual to us. And a lot of people brush this off like, Ugh, I feel so stupid wanting this like, I feel so stupid wanting to feel accepted at work. And that's something like. When we were talking about this, that was kind of something I brought up. And it was very hard for me to admit that that was something that was very important for me to feel accepted in my new job, in my new position at my new school. And, you know, we were talking about it, and I was as I was, like, struggling to say that it was like, all of a sudden, like, it was like, it kind of came to us, like, Well, no, but this is like, it a basic need. Like, it would make sense that you would feel the need for love and belonging, that's right, it. And it's only natural for you as a human to want that, yeah, and so until I feel like I belong in that school, until I feel like I belong Well, it's hard for me to feel respected, to feel admired, to feel like I have some sort of esteem at that school, and then even further, to reach my full potential there, to allow myself to you know, glow and to shine bright and to really show my full potential at that school, because I'm too stuck on that third tier of of trying to belong, yeah.

Eric MacDougall
And as we're kind of go, gonna break down these nine relational needs that we have, they all fall really in the top four parts of the pyramid, right? None of these really are physiological needs we're taking into account that, you know, most people have, like, air, water, shelter, but again, we understand parts in the world they don't have

Kate MacDougall
that. Yeah, and even, and even at times, you know, in your own life, there are times where the physiological needs are harder to get by and, you know, and that becomes a major focus, and that is something that's very difficult. But you know, we're we're going to assume that most of our listeners are there and and if you're not, please reach out to us. We're happy to help. Yeah, and I

Eric MacDougall
really want to say here, because as we jump into these needs, and we're gonna start naming them off, we're gonna do five today, which are gonna fall into the first two categories of safety needs and love and belonging. In the next episode, we're going to talk about the esteemed need and self actualization, which is going to be four and one thing I want to say is, you know, a lot of times when we think about these needs, we're like, we automatically go to somebody else providing them for us, right? So going back to that school example, it's like, yeah, I want to feel love and belonging in my school. And so therefore they need to do something, or they need to. But we really want to encourage you to think about how you can provide these for yourself in these settings, right? So how do I make sure that my need for love and belonging gets fulfilled within this system of relating without relying on another human right and but also sometimes you might and sometimes you won't, but like you have the opportunity to create this for yourself, your needs are your responsibility. And you know, I often challenge people even this idea, you know, listener, as you're listening to this, think about this word, like, I need love. Like, how sometimes people can't even say that. Like, it, like, it's weird for them to even say it. Well, I don't need love. Like, you know, look, I'm I'm good, and it's like, no, like, I need

Kate MacDougall
love. It can be a really tough thing to, like, admit to needing something, right? Like, needy. Wouldn't want to be needy. Yeah, wouldn't want to be needy, but, but these aren't like, I need, I need, I need, I want more. It's not like, about being spoiled. It's about like, these basic human needs. And in relationship, we have those needs, and that's really what we want to touch on in these next episodes, this one and the next one. So let's jump into it. Let's go. So

Eric MacDougall
go. One of the basic ones that we think falls into the safety category, and there's two in the safety needs. The first one is emotional safety, and the second one is trust and reliability. Yeah, kind of go hand in hand,

Kate MacDougall
right? Kind of go hand in hand. But without trust, it's hard to feel safe, right? And

Eric MacDougall
without emotional safety, right? It's very hard to open yourself up to trust, because opening yourself up to trust is risky, right, right? Yeah. And so these are kind of the two foundational ones. And really what we're talking about here is, do you feel secure in a relationship, and do you trust? And can you rely on your partner, not only to like do some tasks, but also to like, take care of your heart, yes,

Kate MacDougall
and that's kind of the most, the the biggest one, when we are in relationship with somebody, like an intimate relationship, especially in marriage, right? Like this is the most intimate relationship you have, most likely. And you know, there's this, there's this idea of them holding your heart, and you've opened yourself up to this person in ways you've never opened yourself up to other people. So for them to protect your heart is absolutely important. And I know for myself, when we went through this exercise like emotional safety was a huge one, there was a time in our relationship where emotional safety wasn't there. Yeah, there was gaslighting. There was a lot of, you know, emotional abuse, emotional abuse and and because we were at that place, because we were stuck in trying to. Feel safe in our relationship, it was then impossible for us to go to the following tears with which was love and belonging, esteem and self actualization, like there was no way. I thought Eric wanted to spend time with me. I didn't feel safe. I didn't trust that he could keep me safe in this relationship. I didn't trust that he could keep my heart safe. So there was no way. I was like, Oh, I wonder if Eric wants to have a date with me. I'm like, There's no way. I'm like, not even thinking of that,

Eric MacDougall
yeah, and really important here, because a lot of times I especially hear men say this, but oftentimes they're like, Well, you know, there was like, no abuse and I never touched her, and there was no cheating, and there was no they go to like, these really massive things. But one of the things, and this is a lot of things that we talk about, like in the group, I run the mastermind, but a lot of times, emotional safety and trust and reliability is lost through, like, 1000 paper cuts, right? It happens very slow, through attrition. It's those times when your partner comes to you and says, Hey, look, I'm feeling this way, and you're essentially like, Oh, why are you always talking about that? Like, just get over it, right? And that done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times, least your partner saying, Oh, I can't share my emotions with you. I can't share myself with you. Yeah,

Kate MacDougall
yeah. And I think that it's so important. These are really like, after food, shelter and water. These are, like, the foundational things of your relationship. This is what makes your relationship able to stand on its two feet, that's right, yeah.

Eric MacDougall
And so really, really important understand that, like, if there's no emotional safety and there's no trust and reliability, it's going to be very hard to move to the next core relational needs. So if you you know, as you're listening to these, and we're gonna talk about three more here in this episode, but as you're listening to these, and you think about, oh, yeah, I'm not getting that. Well, always go back to, you know, is there a level of trust and reliability in your relationship? Do you and your partner both feel emotionally safe? Because these are the foundations, right? In order to be in relationship with another? If these are not fulfilled, nothing else is happening.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and it's so funny, like, just before moving on to the next one, we often meet couples, and when we speak to them, they'll say things like, when we ask, you know what? What is your biggest challenge in your marriage right now? It's, oh, we're not having sex. We're not, you know, connecting physically. We haven't touched in years. And our first thought goes to, Oh, I bet, I bet they're down at the safety needs place like, I bet their safety needs aren't there. So to have, you know, the self actualization part, which is like an amazing sex life, and or even to have, like, the esteem, have enough esteem to be able to be naked and vulnerable and do all those things with my partner. Well, do I even feel safe enough to open myself up in these ways? So then, you know, we have to go back with those couples and work on their safety needs. Work on, okay, let's get back down to the basics. And once that is, you know, healthy and at a good place, then we can start focusing on other things. But a lot of people try to put the cart before the horse. And you know, the hardest thing to work on in your relationship is that basic foundational skill, and we try to skip it. We try to skip past it to get to the fluff, the nice stuff, the dates and the sex and all the other things. But without that foundation, it will not be something that lasts. Yeah, and I

Eric MacDougall
find that oftentimes these two right, like trust, reliability and emotional safety, can be the hardest to talk about, right, because it's really vulnerable, and it's really hard to say, I don't trust you with my heart and I don't open myself up to you. Oftentimes, there's so much self protection that it comes out as blame, accusations, victimization, like all these things, and you're never actually touching to that, which is like, I don't want to open up to you because I'm afraid of how it's going to be received, and I'm afraid that I'm going to be ridiculed or shamed, and that feels worse. And so therefore I'm not gonna open up to you. I'm just gonna kind of stay at the surface

Kate MacDougall
level. So that's kind of what you were saying, is now that we're gonna start on the next tiers, think, oh yeah, no, I don't have this, but go down a tier. Well, do I have the tier before? Yeah,

Eric MacDougall
do I feel safe enough to ask for what I want in a clear and concise way my partner, do I feel safe enough to open up about, you know, some of my most inwards, scary things that I don't share with anybody else to my partner? And so that's really important to understand. So the second one is with three more that we're new to this episode, and all of these fall into love and belonging, right? Which is the third of Maslow's hierarchy, needs and love and belonging. So the first one is connection and belonging. Pretty straightforward, right? You do need love and belonging. Here we're doing something very basic. But for us in our relationship, we often talk about this idea that, you know, we're a team. I know when I reach for you, there will be some emotional reciprocity, right? Like it's going to be returned. And a lot of couples. Because, you know, they fear that when they reach for their partner, like their hands gonna get slapped away, yeah, right. And so that erodes connection that does not feel like we belong, like, oh, you know, My heart doesn't belong to you. I'm not with you. We're not together,

Kate MacDougall
yeah, and even belonging being as, you know, I have passions, I have things that I love to do in my own personal life, and I know that you're going to accept me for who I am, and that I'm still going to be a part of your life despite, you know us maybe not seeing hand in hand, maybe like you love one team and I like the other. But you know, we're still we can still be in relationship, we can still be in a partnership. We can be connected, even though we're not on the same page when it comes to sports teams or political teams or whatever.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, and I think, you know, you talked about this the other day, where we said, you know, we're kind of talking about some really great things that we do for each other in relationship. And I remember you saying, I feel like you accept me for exactly who I am. And so sometimes, even when I'm saying I don't want to do this, or I struggle with this, you know, it's not like, well, you should do that, or you should go and do this. It's like, Hey, you get to do whatever you want, right? And so if that's something you want to do, just own it and choose it, and that's okay, and I'll love you regardless.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah, and oftentimes, and I know that's where you were going, if, when, when we're having an argument, or, you know, we're having a disagreement, and I say something like, you know, I just that's not something I want to do. You know, you're not pushing me to change. It's like, you know, I know deep down inside you would like for me to do that. Yeah, absolutely. And you will say absolutely, it is okay for you. You actually never need to do that. It's just, you know, this is just something that you know, I accept about you, and this is just how you are. So that's very safe, and it creates and reminds me of the safety in our relationship. So you know, now I know that that need is met. I know that I belong with Eric. I know that no matter what like, he's going to accept me for exactly who I am. Yeah, and when

Eric MacDougall
we think about connection and belonging a lot of times, you know, the word that we use to describe it in relationship is emotional intimacy, right? That's kind of what we're talking about. It's these deep conversations. It's me sharing myself to you, and you saying, I'm valid and witnessing me, right? It's, it's me talking about hard things or things that I'm not sure about, and you saying, hey, it's totally normal. So this is like, I belong, right? Like, like, you're my person, and I'm feeling connected to you regardless of maybe how I view myself. Yeah, right. And so that's kind of a very important one when it comes to love and belonging. The next one is physical affection and intimacy. Yes, right? Because we know it's all about sex. It is about sex for everyone. And so this is an important one, because I think this is one that a lot of couples fight about, yeah,

Kate MacDougall
right, yeah. And you know, why aren't we having sex? Why don't you want to have sex with me? The question should be, why don't you feel safe with me? Why don't you feel that you can trust me or rely on me? Because without that foundational skill, without that foundational need, the love and belonging part will not be there, meaning physical affection and intimacy will be very difficult to attain in your relationship, because your focus will not be there,

Eric MacDougall
yeah, and there's a reason we didn't put sex here, right? Because physical affection is not always sex, right? Physical affection is a language that we use, right? The language of physicality in order to connect with each other, beyond words and intimacy, right? Is depth of knowing, right? So really important understand that the like having sex is not a need, but physical affection and being intimate with another is a need, right? And so that's really important understand oftentimes you oftentimes, men have been conditioned that the only type of physical connection that is okay to ask for and acceptable to want is sex, and probably more specifically, sexual intercourse. And so we really have to start, you know, especially as men and women, right? Changing our mentality around physical connection in a marriage, that it's not just about sex, and I often challenge couples, right? Like, how do you touch each other in non sexual ways? Right? What does it look like when you're touching each other? But it's not sexual, it's actually just caring and loving. And we have physical affections all of our lives, like mothers do this to their kids, right? They give physical affection to their kids, but then it's like they're not able to give that same type of care to their husband, because it becomes sexually charged and having to lead to somebody. But like, we want to get to a place, you know, and we joke around about this in our relationship, where sometimes I'll just ask Kate to hold me, and that's all I want. Like, it's not sexual, it's not nothing. I actually feel this insecurity within me, and I want to be held. So we talk. About like the little spoon. Yeah, right. And so I think that's really important understand that this is a need in terms of physical affection and intimacy, to be known, to know another in a really deep way. But it's not necessarily about sexual connection,

Kate MacDougall
yes, very important, very good clarification. And the last one in love and belonging would be playfulness and joy. That is a beautiful need to have in your relationship. I think this is one that's often forgotten because we get so busy in our everyday day in, day out, especially when there's kids involved. You know, we become very good at as being business partners in our family dynamic, and we forget the playfulness and joy part, which is, you know, a huge part of what attracted us to each other at the beginning, right? We, you know, had a lot of dates, and we did a lot of fun things and tried new things, and things were novel, and it was fun, and we laughed a lot. And this gets lost very quickly and very easily in relationships. But this is a human need to play, to feel joyful. It is a basic human need look at children the way, the way children are, is the most pure way of being a human. When you look at a child, they are the purest form of humanity we just choose as we grow up to let parts of that humanity go because we prioritize other things, but playfulness and joy are absolute basic needs that absolutely Need to happen every single day of your life. There's studies that have proven, you know that life you'll live longer, happier, healthier lives, that there's actually like correlations between, like physical health with and play and joy. So you know this is something that is an absolute need in your relationship? Yeah? And

Eric MacDougall
I want to touch on this one, because we didn't have a lot of play and joy in our life for a very long time

Kate MacDougall
because we were too busy trying to be safe. Yeah, maybe

Eric MacDougall
it feels safe, but even to me, you know, I want to say, like, as a man, I remember somebody asking me that question. It actually still happens. It's funny when people, like join us in the mastermind, one of my questions is, what brings you joy? And sometimes people are like, Oh, wow. Like, I don't I don't have an answer for this. You know what I mean? And because, especially as men, like when we're in do it mode all time, but some women as well, right? When you're being a mother, working full time, taking care of everybody, joy is not high on the priority list for you. It gets kind of pushed aside. And it's really important to understand that, like bringing playfulness, bringing joy to your life and the life of the people you love, it's a skill. It takes intention, and most of the time, right when I see couples, I'll meet them, and we're doing couples work, and they talk about their life, we talk about this, and it's like 98% of your life is either being stressed, anxious or pissed off like you need to introduce joy. You're just actually so disconnected to play in joy that it makes sense that you're not really enjoying this your relationship. It's not even that you're not enjoying your relationship, it's you're probably just not enjoying your life, and that's bleeding

Kate MacDougall
into your relationship Exactly. And so you know that being such a basic need in your relationship a foundational piece of your relationship. It's so important to make sure that you know if this is something you're lacking of you know if your relationship seems fine, you know maybe you're sitting there, you're like, Well, you know what? All these, all of these, you know, tears look fine in my relationship, but I'm still not feeling happy that might be the one that might be the one part that you're forgetting to do, because it is the most forgotten part. Yep, it's Oh, especially we're so we're human doers, not human livers, or what

Eric MacDougall
human doing instead of human beings. We're not human livers. We

Kate MacDougall
have livers, but we're not livers. Awesome. So this week,

Eric MacDougall
you know, the five that we talked about was emotional safety, trust and reliability, which these are foundational ones, right? We always want and even now, you know, Kate and I, in our relationship, we continue to try to create a depth of emotional safety and trust, right, in our relationship in order to go deeper into intimacy, right? Because they're correlated. If, if we're stepping deeper into intimacy, deeper into these parts of the unknown that we've maybe never revealed to anybody before,

Kate MacDougall
we need to go deeper in our trust and emotional safety,

Eric MacDougall
right? So really, really important understand and then when it comes to love and belonging, right? Obviously, connection, belonging, physical affection and intimacy, right? So think about non sexual touch. Think about how you're connecting physically, and think about how you're connecting intimately and opening up to each other, and then, of course, probably a really big, forgotten one, which is playfulness and joy, right? And a lot of us, we have play and joy in other aspects of our life, but we actually don't have with each other, because most of the relationship we have now is transact, transactional and very business like. Right? And so we want to start introducing that, and it's going to be awkward at first, but it is a priority. So think about these needs in your own relationship. Think about some you know that you think need to be upgraded, and start thinking about ways that you can provide some of these needs for yourself, right? Whatever that looks like, could be asking for something you want, could be changing an environment. Could be opening up about something that you're struggling with, and then we'll see you next week for the last four core relational needs you.