The Missing Piece to Getting your Needs Met in your Marriage

In this episode, Kate & Eric explore how understanding, asking for, and receiving help in relationships can lead to deeper connection and growth.

Topics:
➡️ Breaking free from the "fairness" myth in relationships to foster true connection.
➡️ The vulnerability required to ask for, receive, and offer help in a partnership.
➡️ Practical strategies to shift from self-reliance to collaborative support in marriage.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Eric MacDougall
Today, we're talking about, like, needs but really, I wanted to kind of share a story that has been on my mind lately. I had a conversation with a man the other day, and he was talking about his partner. So I've been doing couples coaching a lot more, and this idea where there was a lot of score keeping in the relationship.

Kate MacDougall
Oh, I know that. Yeah. Love it. Love it. Stacking the deck, right? I got the scoreboard. It's hidden.

Eric MacDougall
Exactly, exactly, and really how, you know, this man's wife was saying that she does everything, and she's overwhelming. He has nothing, and there was a lot of blame. And, you know, then him falling into defensiveness and kind of being like, well, look at all the stuff I did today. Like, you know, kind of like playing that game, right? Being like, is this us? Yeah, right. But you know, you did that last but there's times when I get into that first the best way to get help is to tell everybody that they're not doing enough, right? That's the best way to get help.

Kate MacDougall
the end. And that was episode 183...

Eric MacDougall
so this dynamic is something I wanted to talk about, because it really brings to light. You know, certainly for me, I can relate to this man's wife of like, doing everything and and I have enough self awareness that, like, I create that for myself, right? Like, when I came to burnout and I blamed everybody for not helping me out, and I was all to me, like, I understand that. Like, I have enough self awareness outside of that moment that it's like, oh, like, you do this to yourself. Eric, yeah, you're not great at asking for at asking for help. You're really unclear about exactly what you need. And even when help is offered, you suck at receiving it, right? Like, how many times you come in, I'll make dinner today? Like, no, no, it's all good. Let's do it together. No, no. Like, Oh God, it's already all planned. Or,

Kate MacDougall
like, I'm in the middle of making dinner, and you're like, What can I do? And I'm like, nothing. You can go sit down, and then you, like, start chopping vegetables. And I'm like, didn't want those vegetables, but fine, okay, I'll take them

Eric MacDougall
vegetables. And so I think it's really important to have a topic on this and really helping listeners understand, like, how vulnerable it is to not only ask for your needs to be met, but also to receive them,

Kate MacDougall
yeah, and I think one very important thing to just start out this episode very quickly. I don't want to get too deep into this, but it's the idea of the 5050 marriage. I think anytime people think about, you know, carrying the weight in the marriage, or asking for help, you automatically go to this 5050, mentality of, well, can't ask for help, because, you know, my partner's already been doing their share. Or, you know, even

Eric MacDougall
so I want to go even further than that. Sorry to interrupt, but like listeners right now are probably saying like, no 50, it's 100 100 even 100 100 Yeah, is not good. Yeah, right. And so please continue, because we can kind of dive into

Kate MacDougall
exactly so I just think that it's very important to like note to keep, keep in mind during this whole episode, there's no such thing as 100, 150, 50. Sometimes it's going to be 8020, sometimes it's going to be 100 200 sometimes it varies, you know, and that's the beautiful part of being in a relationship, is when I'm feeling down, you can bring me up when you're feeling down, I can bring you up when we come home, and I can look at you, and you can be like, I had a day, like, don't count on me tonight. And it's like, cool, got you and vice versa. Now when that's happening often, when it's you know, one partner always picking up the other partner, that can get exhausting, and this is where conversations need to be had, and this is where our kind of episode comes into play. But to have this idea of, I already do too much. I already do enough in the marriage. Wash my hands of it. I'm the one who does everything. Like the first step to creating a healthy marriage and a healthy connection, and for you to be in a healthy place in your marriage is to let that idea go. Yeah. And

Eric MacDougall
I think, like, the simplest way, and this is something that we, I talked about with all my couples, is, uh, marriage isn't fair. And so if you, if you have this idea that, like, oh, it has to be fair, you're are, you've already lost it, right? Because then you're already trying to manage, like, uh, love, generosity, connection, long term relationships have nothing to do with fairness. Like, I think about, like, older couples were like, you know, one person, yeah, great example. I had a friend here, and I say too much, but like, his mother was like, you know, literally, like, has was moving into Alzheimer's. She passed away recently, but his father had taken care of his mother for like, four years. Yeah,

Speaker 3
she's almost in a vegetative Yeah, she had dementia. Yeah, exactly. Like,

Eric MacDougall
that's not fair, right? Like, that's not fair, as people like, for one person to have to take care of another's health for four years. And so for some people, like, so for you being like, oh, like, it has to be fair. We have to equally wash the same amount of dishes. Like, get over yourself. Yeah, I love you. Get over yourself, yeah, because marriage is not fair. And if you are trying. To make it fair? Well, then you've already now, now it's no longer about connection. It's about being right. It's about control. It's about you're not prioritizing the right. And the other thing too is like, understand how this lack of fairness you are part of it, like you are part of the ecosystem that is creating unfairness for you. So you have a role to play as well, right? And so it's not your partner's fault. You also have a role, like, exactly what came to and I was, like, losing my mind because I was doing everything and Kate and kids weren't doing anything. I have a role to play in that I am not great at asking for help. I did not give Kate clear enough direction to do things. I didn't stop doing things and take care of myself. I have this idea that, like, everything needs to be perfect and pristine and all everything has to be taken care of,

Kate MacDougall
yeah, before I can take care of myself, yeah, before I can take time to go to the movies, I need to absolutely serve my entire family, right? Make sure that they're fed, make sure the house is clean, make sure all it's like, no, you don't

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, but that's my narrative that I create. That's the role that I play, yeah, in this dysfunctional idea of our relationship fairness. So that's the first thing I wanna start with. But what's most important, and this is kind of where, you know, I was listening to this man talk about a situation and how, like, he just didn't get it right. He's like, Well, what do you need? Like, what do you need help with? And he's like, she's just not telling me what she needs. And we, I kind of helped the man, kind of, I walked into this place where it's like, it's not that. So first of all, she might not even know what she needs, number one. But the other thing too, and this is not like a fault of hers, like a lot of us don't know what we need. A lot of us think we need something, and then we receive it, and it doesn't change the way we feel. Yeah. So what do we do? We stop we stop wanting things. We stop asking for things. So she might not be aware of what she needs. But even more than that, asking for it or getting you to help her actually feel so scary and vulnerable that she would rather be in the state of disconnection, like the state of disconnection, and I'm a victim, and nobody I do everything, and nobody ever takes care of me like that feels safer and more familiar than to allow herself to be cared for. That's the same thing in our relationship, right? It's more familiar for me to do everything, to take care of everything, to put my needs aside, something I've done for a very long time. I was in the service industry for a very long time, so it's familiar for me to do that, right? But to have you come in and make dinner for the family, which is something that you do often, and for me to go sit down and read a book 10 feet from you while you're doing that is incredibly uncomfortable for me, right? That I have to kind of deal with all those feelings inside Eric, this is not fair. You know, Kate's doing all the work. You should help her. You're not doing enough. That's all my baggage, right? And so understanding that in that moment, I am the one that's preventing myself from asking for help, but also receiving help. And so this is really what I want all of listeners to start thinking about, is that if your partner's not asking for help and they're just like, maybe a martyr, or being like, Oh God, like, it's unfair, blah, blah, blah, it might actually, they might actually feel more familiarity, right? Because humans love familiarity to stay in that space, right? And so they actually need to get more uncomfortable in order to go to what they want to go to, which is getting help, working together in collaboration, unburdening themselves. But that's going to take their work as well. And you can help them by doing that. You help me do this a lot, right? Where it's like, Hey, I got dinner. I'll take care of it. I'm like, no, no, it's already planned. And you actually have to, like, stop. Like, stop, Eric, right? You touch me. You're like, Eric, I'm gonna make dinner tonight. You're not gonna be in the kitchen tonight. Yeah? I don't care what you do, but I will be doing dinner on my own for the family, and you will not be around, yeah? And it's like, you're telling me to go sit down. But in the end, if I'm gonna go, you know, mow the lawn at that time, that's up to me, yeah? But in the end, what you're doing is saying, I am not giving you access to this thing that you continue to go to that prevents you from taking care of yourself. And if I take this off your plate and you go do something else to not take care of yourself, that's on you, right? And we can talk about it later, and all that stuff. But in the end, that's sometimes we have to do as a partner, is kind of bring in a little bit more of that fierce intimacy and say, Hey, like, you know, I know you mentioned you were burnt out. I'm gonna do this. Like, oh, I'll help. No, you won't. I'm gonna do this alone. So go find something else to do. Yeah, I suggest you take care of yourself and your needs. But if you're not able to do that, and that's too scary and you have too many feelings to deal with, you don't say this, but don't do it.

Kate MacDougall
Yeah. And I think that that's part of being vulnerable comes from the partner who has to do that. Because, you know, for a person like me who's avoidant conflict, avoidant who, you know doesn't like to rock the boat for me to be like, No, Eric, I've got this. Please go sit down, and then you start doing the dishes. And it's like, you're not gonna tell me what to do. I've got this. Please go sit down and you know, and I know that, like, you have a way you like to make dinner. I know when you walk into the kitchen and you see me making dinner and there's literally spices on the ceiling, you're like, like, what really

Eric MacDougall
happens anymore? By the way, it rarely happens. Yeah, you do, like, a really great job over. Past four years, like in making dinners, I feel like, when you make dinner now, I'm like, wow, this is awesome. I just want to say how much, well,

Kate MacDougall
that was because I had to put myself in a vulnerable situation to literally learn to cook. Because, you know, I I never really took the time to learn. It wasn't something that was interesting to me. I used to just think, you know, red spices are red spices, paprika, cayenne. Same thing, you know, like, I didn't really take the time to, like, learn and grow when it came to, you know, being a cook in the house, yeah, and I didn't really have to, because you're amazing in the kitchen, and you have this, like, natural ability to put things together and they taste awesome. And so for me to go in the kitchen and make a dinner is like a lot more work, because I'm like, Okay, can I put lemon with with paprika? I don't know. Like, do these two flavors? I don't know. So I usually follow recipes. That's my safest bet. But by doing so, you know, I've discovered things, that I've learned things, and by putting myself out there and trying different recipes and being vulnerable, because then it's like, here you go, like, you're really good at Good, good cooking. I hope you like this. And then you're like, eating it, and you're like, Mmm, that's delicious, very spicy. But most of the time it's

Eric MacDougall
like, Man, I you know when you're like, I'm gonna do this. I'm like, Yes, this, I'm like, Yes, I love when you make that

Kate MacDougall
right? It's like, a little embarrassing when your kids are like, what's the favorite food your mom makes omelets? I'm like, Oh, dang it.

Eric MacDougall
Make a mean omelet. Mean omelet. Yeah. I think what you're talking about here too, is like, yes, it takes vulnerability on both partners, yes,

Kate MacDougall
to do that. Yeah. And that's the thing. And so it was very vulnerable for me to put myself in a situation like that, to be like, Hey, I might make a really mediocre dinner here, and it might not be very good. But also, like, for me to tell you, like, go sit down. That's tough because I don't know how you're gonna respond to that. I don't want to create an argument. I don't want you to be like, Oh no. Every time you cook, you put spices on the ceiling, like, no. Like, get any sort of tension. Exactly like, I try to avoid tension. So for me to be like, I got this Eric like, to get out of my habit of like, oh, Eric's in the kitchen. I'll go do something else. I'll take this time for myself. Like that became kind of a habit, because for a while, you were making dinner all the time, and it was kind of nice. Like, honestly, like, I mean, who wouldn't want that, right? It's like, nice. Eric's making dinner again. Great. I'm gonna go relax. But you know, you asking me, like, saying, Hey, Kate, sometimes I'm gonna need you to take dinner on so I can, you know, catch up on work. Catch up on rest, catch up on my own, play

Eric MacDougall
with the kids. You know, like, do I think that a lot lately, right? Like, me and the kids are playing, and then I'm like, I have to make dinner. And then you're, you're like, starting to make dinner, yeah, I'm like, sweet. I gotta keep playing with the kids.

Kate MacDougall
This is awesome. That's right, so, but it's very vulnerable for me to get out of that habit that comfort, right? It's like, oh, I'm like, really enjoying putting my feet up after work every night. And like, now I have to, like, go and do something which takes a lot of time and energy from me, but the more you do it, the less uncomfortable it becomes, and the easier it becomes. So you just have to, like, start, yeah,

Eric MacDougall
and I want to say like, so, you know, the whole idea of this episode here is to understand that, you know, understanding your own needs, asking for what you want, and receiving help from others, is vulnerable, so that's gonna be uncomfortable for a lot of people, right? So that's first, first and foremost. But there's this other side to it, which I think is really, really important, which is vulnerability has completely changed our marriage, right? Like this idea of and this is like, what we preach, what we talk about, but this idea of revealing yourself to another, so you, revealing yourself to me, me, revealing myself to you, has created a depth of connection that like, at least for me, I have never felt before in any other relationship my

Kate MacDougall
life. And that's, I think, the most beautiful thing of being in a marriage with somebody is you can have that level of vulnerability that you have in no other relationships in your life, like you will be most vulnerable in your marriage than you will in any other relationship. Yeah. And so I think when people are like, you know, what's the point of being married? What's the point it's like, the point of being married is you can actually have a relationship where you can be truly, truly yourself, and let all inhibitions go and just completely be vulnerable. And that's not somebody that's not a gift that you can give everyone. That's the difference between a best friend and a husband, and that's the difference between, you know, a parent, and a husband. Is there's this different level of intimacy. There's this different level of vulnerability. And yes, you can be vulnerable with your friends, your parents, your siblings, your kids, whatever, but the level of vulnerability is very different, and what happens is in a lot of marriages, that vulnerability doesn't exist because you've. Made up all of these ideas of like, well, if I do this and if I do that, then my husband or wife won't love me anymore, or they'll see me differently. And it's like, if you can just allow yourself to be seen vulnerably vulnerable by other people, like, what a beautiful gift to give them and to give to yourself because to be truly seen by someone really, truly feels amazing.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, I agree. And I think, you know, we have this idea, as we call, like, other valid intimacy in the group, but this idea of what you're talking about, which is like, I'll let myself be seen as long as you also do it. And it kind of like steps into agreement, right? Which is like, fairness, all that crap and so but to to reveal yourself to another with out knowing whether or not they're going to accept you is risky, and this is kind of like the the false narrative around intimacy, right? Like, you know people are like, I love intimacy. I want to feel good, but like intimacy is actually quite scary in the beginning, and I've literally seen individuals. I mean, we all know individuals, and you probably know some in your life, right? Listener that you they would rather actually end a marriage than be more vulnerable. Like, it's actually like, you know, they've gotten to the vulnerability threshold where they're like, this is as vulnerable as I'm willing to be, right? I'm not willing to open myself up anymore. I'm not willing to grow. I'm not willing to get more uncomfortable. My priorities comfort and because any step forward in this current marriage leads to more discomfort and leads to me having to grow, and me having to change and reveal myself and open myself up my deepest things that I've been spending most of my life hiding. Let's just end the marriage. Then I can go into a new relationship and be new and kind of like be back to surface level. And then eventually we talk about this all the time, which is why we kept our marriage together, which is we decided to do that growth with each other, instead of going to spend five years with a new person, and then getting to that point, it's like, oh, after five years, where now this person knows me again, I now have the choice to make again. Yeah.

Kate MacDougall
And I want to add to that, because I think whether or not you want to be vulnerable with your partner, your partner is the person who sees you the most in your life. They're the person who's going to know you the most. When your eyebrow does this, your partner knows what that means. Like, that's how much time and energy is spent in a marriage is you start seeing these subtle little things, and you can tell what your partner's thinking, how they're feeling, just by these like subtle changes in their voice, their face, their posture, their what they're talking about, how they're feeling or whatever. So whether you want to be vulnerable or not, your partner is going to see you now. Are you going to allow your partner to truly see you, or every time your partner sees you, are you going to run away and push them away? And that hurts. It hurts when your partner sees you, when I see you and you're like, f off, like, don't stop looking at me kind of thing. Like, it's like, oh, okay, like, I see it. So why aren't you talking about it? Like, I want to help you with this. I want to, you know, be that person for you who can help you move through this emotion, or whatever it is you're feeling or living in the moment, like, why won't you let me in? Like, that's so strange to me that you would not want me there, or not want me as your wife to be in your heart in that way.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, and it's strange, yet we all do it like, it's strange to you in this moment when you're thinking about it logically. But it's not logical, right? It's, it's based so much in self protection, in how we grew up, in the way that our parents treated us, in the experience we had of life, etc. So really, really important to understand that like, like, self protection is a normal part of relationships, right? Like all of relationships are, is moving closer together than, like, getting some sort of rift, moving apart, and then having the distance where you want to move together again. That's literally all relationships are. And so in those moments, as much as it's like, you know, you're saying, like, I don't understand, like, why wouldn't you let me in? It's Well, I'm not letting you in, because I've spent 39 years protecting this part of myself, and last time I opened it up as somebody, it's stung, and so now that creates this kind of calloused shell around it where it's like, I'm not letting anybody in, right? And I've met people who are like, in their 60s, 70s, and it's like, oh, like this a whole idea, I can't teach a tiger new tricks or whatever. But like this will, I'm sure that's

Kate MacDougall
not how the saying goes, by the way, no, it's not teach a tiger dog, oh,

Eric MacDougall
dog, new tricks, exactly. Leopard can't change his spot, all that stuff, but, but the idea here is, like, understanding that, like, in some cases, like, you trying to change your partner and feeding it to them and being like, Hey, be vulnerable. Just be vulnerable is actually the threat, right? So if you were to come to me in that moment and be like, Hey, I see you need help, like, I'll just help. You know, I don't need help. I'm fine. And you're like, No, you do need help you. Then I'm pushing then I'm feeling more threatened, and so now I'm like, covering even more, right? Yeah. And then

Kate MacDougall
next time you're like, not even allow me to see that. Like, yeah, you're just gonna completely shut your emotions off and walk around like a robot in the house, because you don't want me to see any kind

Eric MacDougall
of, like, mind masking, right? I'm gonna mask what you see, so I'm gonna be. Throwing out all kinds of organic psychology here, but, but what we really want to get to is the subject at hand, which is understanding how scary it is to ask for and receive help from somebody you love, when really from anybody, but especially from somebody you love. And so going back to like, this man's story and saying, like, I don't understand. Like, why isn't she just getting help? Why she keep doing this to herself. Like, how many of us have seen people you see me do this all the time, right? And you're like, why is Eric doing this? Like, he's talking about how he needs a break. He's talking about stressed out. He is. He woke up this morning and he did 10,000 things. I don't get it. I told him, go take a break, and he didn't, right? And it's because, like, we're in this narrative that is familiar to us, and in order to exit that narrative in order to step off that hamster wheel in order to do something. It's scary, it's vulnerable, it's uncomfortable, and if our priority is not feeling discomfort, we would rather stay in the familiar narrative. Right? In this case of this man's wife, of being the victim, nobody ever helping her, her having to do everything, which is a common narrative for people, I have that narrative too, right? When I'm at my worst, that's my narrative. Nobody's helping me out. What about Eric? Nobody ever takes care of me. My knees don't get met. So F everybody, I'm just going to isolate on myself, right? That's my narrative. And so understanding that, you know, overcoming that narrative is not only going to take help, but it's going to take a lot of courage on my part to say, Oh, here's this, like gravitational pull for this thing that I love doing, and that is actually really kind of like soothing and like a warm blanket. And I actually have to go against that and go to this space which is uncomfortable and scary and is not but long term will have more benefits,

Kate MacDougall
yeah. And I think that I like that you put the long term in there, because I think being vulnerable is actually being strong. And the more you're vulnerable, the stronger you become. It's like lifting five pounds at the gym. If you lift five pounds at the gym every single day, eventually, that five pounds can become 1020, 3050, 100, right? So it's doing small things every day to build that trust in yourself and to build that, you know, to believe that you can do hard things. And so if that means today, I'm going to do I'm going to allow somebody to take care of me once today, one time, or I'm going to note when somebody took care of me, and really notice that, because the narrative is nobody takes care of me. So now I'm really consciously going to look at what part of today did somebody take care of me? Yep, because it happens. It's just, I've got this narrative in my head that nobody takes care of me, so that's all I'm going to see.

Eric MacDougall
That's right. And that could be as simple as, like, you know, for me, like, I woke up this morning and the coffee was made. Like, you made the coffee, yeah, right. And so, and then I could, like, create a narrative of, like, she just did it for her, and she likes, no, I woke up this morning and coffee was available to me. That's something that my wife did, right? And so really understand these small steps. And so I think, like, action step wise too, like, start to jump in, but if you're the partner who struggles and feels like you're the victim and like, like, nobody's taking care of you, and you're doing it all on your own, your work is to ask for something simple and then allow the person to provide it for you, right? And like you're saying to like, notice when things are being provided to change your narrative. If you are the person who is seeing your partner, right for us in our situation, it's often you who see me kind of taking, taking on everything, way too much, right, and putting my own needs aside. Your work is really being courageous and not always going to your partner and being like, How can I help? How can I help? How can I help? Because we're partners overwhelmed. That's, that's a lot. We come to me, how can I help? I'm like, I got it

Kate MacDougall
right, yeah. And it's like, just to I'm already busy enough just to think of how I can, how you can help, is now I have to put more energy in thinking. So no, I'm just never mind. I don't need anything exactly,

Eric MacDougall
just leave me alone. And so the work for the partner who's trying to support the overall partner is to just do it right, to just say, like you're saying like, I'm gonna take care of the kids bedtime routine tonight. You're not gonna be part of that. Or you go ahead and do something. I love you, but take that time for yourself. I'm gonna make dinner tonight, or I'm gonna go bring Francis to hockey,

Kate MacDougall
promise. And you don't even have to say it. It means that if you know your partner starts dinner around five o'clock, go in the kitchen at 445 and start. That's right. It's like, oh, I'm actually making dinner tonight. I've already made plans. It's done. And

Eric MacDougall
if they're and if their response is tension. No, I got it, honey. I got this. Okay, yeah, just for yourself. I love you. I'm gonna

Kate MacDougall
in a way that's desirable and loving like honey, I love you, and I see how much, how hard you work, and how you know how much you provide for this family. And I think you're such an amazing person. And I want to do this for you. Let me, let me do this for you, because I love you, and I see that you need a break, and I want to do this for you, yeah, I love that. It's like, a beautiful way of reminding them, like, this is a way for me to love you, yeah. So take

Eric MacDougall
that into your week again. You know, open yourself up to bit of vulnerability. And it doesn't have to be all at once, right? You don't have to, like, just go. Play it all out. Can be a little bit scary, but do it in a way that feels safe to you, find somebody you trust, open yourself up and know that it's going to be scary, but long term, it's actually what leads to true and deep connection, especially in your closest relationships. All right, everyone that wraps us up for this week's podcast, if you did find value in the podcast, please leave us a rating and review on Apple or Spotify. Kate and I always love reading those reviews. Words of affirmation is our love language, but it also helps the podcast grow and get to more individuals and couples so they can implement the skills to evolve their marriage as well. If you do want to go deeper in some of the training, we actually have a free communication guide you can grab in the show notes, just click the link. That guide will help you evolve your communication and connection in your marriage in a way that is inviting and exciting to your partner, instead of pushy and controlling. So go ahead, grab that training, implement some of those skills so you can really make a difference in leading your relationship.